|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 10, 2021 12:28:14 GMT -5
It's difficult to know what Linda should or shouldn't have done, because, in my opinion, no matter what she did then or what she'd do afterwards, someone or other was bound to criticize her for it.
That's certainly true. She was criticized because she covered other artists rather than write her own, yet I happen to think if she had written more than just a handful of songs, she would've been criticized on her songwriting efforts. And she probably would've said to her manager, "There! See? I told you I didn't want to add to the world's list of bad songs!" The alternate route would've been in finding songs that had been written but not yet recorded or not too well known. That was the case when she wanted to do Different Drum.
The version by the Greenbriar Boys wasn't really well known in 1967 or anytime afterwards. Linda's version knocked it out of the ball park, even though she wanted to record it in a similar vein to the version by the Greenbriar Boys. And the powers that be over the Monkees had already nixed recording a version by them, even though Mike Nesmith was a member and suggested the song. Linda didn't know that Nesmith, a friend, had written the song. Btw, I posted a video featuring Barbara Hamaker, who worked for Raybert Productions and the Monkees and who was a classmate of Linda's in Tucson. Hamaker didn't know Nesmith wrote the song either until told of by the person interviewing her.
My whole worldview on this is that Linda was at the forefront of a particular left-of-center style of country, much less Nashville and more California in nature; and it was not necessarily something that anyone at Capitol could have easily placed in one neat little box. I think they meant well, and Linda (in her own strong-willed way) did too, but the ends just didn't meet until Heart Like A Wheel; and by then, Linda was out the door.
I think Capitol knew the times were changing and while Linda wanted to be a country singer (which she now denies), she wasn't hip on doing it the Nashville's paint by numbers method and using the same musicians and singers who played on almost every country singer's recording. Nashville, in my estimation was trying to create their version of the L.A. Wrecking Crew. But, where as the Wrecking Crew were a very versatile bunch and could play in many different styles, that wasn't the case with the Nashville equivalent.
And much as I think Linda should've tried Bakersfield rather than Nashville, in all honesty, I don't think that would've worked either. Linda would've got a Buck Owens or Merle Haggard record but not a Linda Ronstadt record. What Linda needed was the right group of musicians playing behind her. And she had that with Andrew, Kenny, Dan, and Waddy. It's too bad it came at the end of Linda's run with Capitol. Had they been playing with Linda all along, Linda probably would've had several hit records and some considerable leverage to renegotiate and re-sign to Capitol. It's obvious Capitol liked Linda and they were sorry to see her leave. I'm surprised she did leave but it worked out for the best for a good long time.
And anyway, like any record label (even Asylum to a certain extent), Capitol wanted hit singles from their artists.The only problem was that Linda wasn't exactly just a singles artist, nor was she a single-genre artist either.
Album oriented artists were bands and individuals just beginning to be more focused on the album rather than the singles. But, the singles had their place in building the album oriented acts and calling attention to them. Linda initially still in the era where the singles dominated and determined your status with the record company. She should've focused on giving Capitol what they wanted - hit singles - at the same time while trying to make her albums successful while working in multi-genres. When she jumped from Capitol to Asylum, she still could've been a flop if Peter Asher hadn't been there for the long term. Things could've been a whole lot different if he hadn't been there and his presence can never be underappreciated by anyone.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 10, 2021 12:43:12 GMT -5
Three songs I thought Linda should've done
Mary MacGregor/I Just Want to Love You - This was a country-pop song, the B-side of Torn Between Two Lovers and a song I felt should've been released as an A-side to the country radio stations. But, I believe this was a song which would've been a good choice for Linda and could've been a hit for her, had she done it. Ariola America, Mary's label at the time, blew it by making this song a B-side.
Dusty Springfield/I Only Wanna Be With You - Another song Linda should've done. The Bay City Rollers had a hit in the 70s with the song but when I listen to the song, I hear it as a country song that would've been right for Linda. Then again, she could've made it as a pop classic or rock classic herself and buried the version by the Bay City Rollers.
Gayle McCormick and Smith/What Am I Going to Do - Think I posted this one once before but can't find it now. Some of the songs we have posted are missing, which is odd because the songs are still on Youtube. Anyway, Gayle had a super version of this Carole King-Toni Stern song from 1969-70, which sadly, the public wasn't interested. Gayle and this song deserved better. And it's a song I wished Linda had recorded in the mid-to-late 70s. She could've nailed it.
|
|
|
Post by erik on Dec 10, 2021 13:20:19 GMT -5
Given that both the Eagles and Aaron Neville have covered the Charles Brown R&B X-Mas classic "Please Come Home For Christmas", my mind plays with the idea of an imaginary Christmas album Linda could have recorded at the end of the 1970's that includes another Charles Brown X-Mas fave, one recorded in 1971 by no less than The Man:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 11:27:06 GMT -5
Here is a song that would have gone well on "We Ran"
|
|
|
Post by Guest on Dec 21, 2021 18:48:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by RobGNYC on Dec 21, 2021 19:18:05 GMT -5
This thread has officially jumped the shark.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 7:34:39 GMT -5
It's difficult to know what Linda should or shouldn't have done, because, in my opinion, no matter what she did then or what she'd do afterwards, someone or other was bound to criticize her for it.That's certainly true. She was criticized because she covered other artists rather than write her own, yet I happen to think if she had written more than just a handful of songs, she would've been criticized on her songwriting efforts. And she probably would've said to her manager, "There! See? I told you I didn't want to add to the world's list of bad songs!" The alternate route would've been in finding songs that had been written but not yet recorded or not too well known. That was the case when she wanted to do Different Drum. The version by the Greenbriar Boys wasn't really well known in 1967 or anytime afterwards. Linda's version knocked it out of the ball park, even though she wanted to record it in a similar vein to the version by the Greenbriar Boys. And the powers that be over the Monkees had already nixed recording a version by them, even though Mike Nesmith was a member and suggested the song. Linda didn't know that Nesmith, a friend, had written the song. Btw, I posted a video featuring Barbara Hamaker, who worked for Raybert Productions and the Monkees and who was a classmate of Linda's in Tucson. Hamaker didn't know Nesmith wrote the song either until told of by the person interviewing her. My whole worldview on this is that Linda was at the forefront of a particular left-of-center style of country, much less Nashville and more California in nature; and it was not necessarily something that anyone at Capitol could have easily placed in one neat little box. I think they meant well, and Linda (in her own strong-willed way) did too, but the ends just didn't meet until Heart Like A Wheel; and by then, Linda was out the door. I think Capitol knew the times were changing and while Linda wanted to be a country singer (which she now denies), she wasn't hip on doing it the Nashville's paint by numbers method and using the same musicians and singers who played on almost every country singer's recording. Nashville, in my estimation was trying to create their version of the L.A. Wrecking Crew. But, where as the Wrecking Crew were a very versatile bunch and could play in many different styles, that wasn't the case with the Nashville equivalent. And much as I think Linda should've tried Bakersfield rather than Nashville, in all honesty, I don't think that would've worked either. Linda would've got a Buck Owens or Merle Haggard record but not a Linda Ronstadt record. What Linda needed was the right group of musicians playing behind her. And she had that with Andrew, Kenny, Dan, and Waddy. It's too bad it came at the end of Linda's run with Capitol. Had they been playing with Linda all along, Linda probably would've had several hit records and some considerable leverage to renegotiate and re-sign to Capitol. It's obvious Capitol liked Linda and they were sorry to see her leave. I'm surprised she did leave but it worked out for the best for a good long time. And anyway, like any record label (even Asylum to a certain extent), Capitol wanted hit singles from their artists.The only problem was that Linda wasn't exactly just a singles artist, nor was she a single-genre artist either.Album oriented artists were bands and individuals just beginning to be more focused on the album rather than the singles. But, the singles had their place in building the album oriented acts and calling attention to them. Linda initially still in the era where the singles dominated and determined your status with the record company. She should've focused on giving Capitol what they wanted - hit singles - at the same time while trying to make her albums successful while working in multi-genres. When she jumped from Capitol to Asylum, she still could've been a flop if Peter Asher hadn't been there for the long term. Things could've been a whole lot different if he hadn't been there and his presence can never be underappreciated by anyone. In the "Best of Capitol" set, there are "Nashville version" bonus tracks of certain songs. Those are worse than the released versions. I am not sure which "Silver Theads" I dislike more, Linda did not like the first as its one she redid, I wish she had sung the middle verse instead of making it instrumental, Wanda Jackson sang it. I don't think Linda had a Nashville voice though. Dolly definitely did, Emmy sorta. Jim Reeves transitioned from honky tonk hick style to his smooth "Gentleman Jim" one, which gave him his classic hits, and many could have been used by Linda.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 7:46:38 GMT -5
Country song for Linda
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 22, 2021 16:42:24 GMT -5
In the "Best of Capitol" set, there are "Nashville version" bonus tracks of certain songs. Those are worse than the released versions.
As I recall, the only Nashville track on The Best of Linda Ronstadt: The Capitol Years, was an alternate take of He Darked the Sun. The other unreleased songs were a song featured (Can It Be True) in a movie, and songs from the Troubador (I think) and an unreleased song from Hand Sown, Home Grown, on which there was no other information. Which was very odd.
I am not sure which "Silver Theads" I dislike more, Linda did not like the first as its one she redid, I wish she had sung the middle verse instead of making it instrumental, Wanda Jackson sang it.
Linda liked Silver Threads and Golden Needles, and she seemed to just sparkle when she was singing it. I like both versions, but I like some versions on TV (and now YouTube) I saw of Linda where she just squealed with delight as the band goes into the instrumental section. The delight in her voice warms your heart because Linda had that capability to make you appreciate all of her efforts and everything she put into a song. As for Linda not singing the middle verse, I'll have to give that a listen as I don't believe it was in the versions by the Springfields or Skeeter Davis. I will say dropping a verse is not a biggie and it may make the song better.
One reason Linda's version of Different Drum became such a classic is that she learned the song as performed by the Greenbriar Boys, instead of the song's composer, her friend Michael Nesmith. Had she learned the song from Nez, Nez's version would've included a middle verse that was hard to sing for most people. It disrupted the flow of the song. Because Linda's version wasn't the composer's version but a cover version,Linda created a classic in the process, which please its composer no end and for which he had gratitude for Linda all of his life. One thing a songwriter should do is not put in more lyrics than needed. I was guilty of doing that with my songs, which made many songs of mine difficult to memorize. When it comes to writing lyrics for a song, less is more.
I don't think Linda had a Nashville voice though. Dolly definitely did, Emmy sorta. Jim Reeves transitioned from honky tonk hick style to his smooth "Gentleman Jim" one, which gave him his classic hits, and many could have been used by Linda.
Linda definitely had no Nashville voice, but she wanted to be a country singer when she was younger. And despite what she says now to the contrary. I would class Linda's country era as existing from 1968 through 1975 with little touches after that. The thing is a singer doesn't have to have a country voice to sing country. That's kind of a Nashvillian mind set. The Nashville establishment wanted fans to think all of the country music and not other areas. But, as Erik has long pointed out, there was southern California country, which wasn't likely to remind one of Nashville. And I remember when Waylon Jennings was such a rebel when it came to Nashville. He hated Nashville and didn't want to record there. Some may have had Nashville voices and may have recorded there, but that didn't mean they liked the musical establishment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 18:48:41 GMT -5
Linda "squeals with delight", I'll have to watch for that! Some songs do delight her, and I love watching and hearing those.
Linda does respond to audience applause beautifully, and I think the love flows both ways. Openings for "Desperado" and "Blue Bayou" for example.
Linda seems happy with Karla, Lowell, JDS, Warren, Jimmy Webb songs in performances particuarly, and also giving her musicians solo or jam sessions, as their turn to shine, which they do.
It might be "A Retrospective" album that has some Nashvilled tracks, "Some of Shelley's Blues" IIRC was one, also a Nez song.
Now having Linda guesting in a Monkees episode, that would have been a blast! She could have played the girl in "Some Like It Lukewarm"
|
|
|
Post by erik on Dec 22, 2021 19:40:52 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker re. Linda's country voice:
The other thing to consider is that Linda's country influences, while she inherited a good deal of them from having listened to the Grand Ole Opry and the Louisiana Hayride on the radio, came to an equal (if not indeed a greater) extent by the country influences of her own region of the country, the Southwest: honky-tonk; rockabilly; Western swing; the cross-border influences of Mexico. While she could do country as well as anybody, the drawl in her voice is absent of the hard Southern twang that everyone in Nashville thinks of as "country", and more Western.
And we must be honest: Linda certainly found it much easier and more to her liking to be able to parlay her own style of country with the support of like-minded musician and people of her generation in the Los Angeles of the late 1960's and early 1970's. She would not have liked the strictures that would have been placed on her had she been in Nashville (IMHO).
|
|
|
Post by eddiejinnj on Dec 23, 2021 7:23:31 GMT -5
That would have been cool for her to be on The Monkees Show. I am not hearing Linda do "I Only Want to Be with You". I think Linda could have done DS's "The Wanderer" Good song for "Get Closer". eddiejinnj
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 24, 2021 11:07:06 GMT -5
That would have been cool for her to be on The Monkees Show. I am not hearing Linda do "I Only Want to Be with You". I think Linda could have done DS's "The Wanderer" Good song for "Get Closer". eddiejinnj According to Barbara Hamaker (Linda's high school class mate in Tucson and who worked as a secretary for Raybert Productions when The Monkees TV series was in production), Linda was among the rock artists who hung around at Raybert Productions. The Byrds and the Buffalo Springfield also being among the artists hanging around the studio, just to visit with the Monkees. The Monkees had Frank Zappa on the show (a guest of Mike Nesmith's), Charlie Smalls (Davy's guest) and Tim Buckley (Micky's guest). Peter had invited Janis Joplin and she was a go but then a last minute cancellation. It's surprising Raybert didn't invite Linda to be on the show, but she may not have wanted to be on the show. I could've seen Linda and Mike and/or all the Monkees doing a performance of Different Drum or Some of Shelly's Blues. Capitol probably wouldn't have minded as Linda would've gotten a big plug from being on the show.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2021 13:09:35 GMT -5
Christmas Day in less than 6 hours where I am...
This retro-styled song could easily have been written, composed and performed by Linda. It would have appealed to her baby boomer fans, & everyone after I expect. At least once a year Linda would be trending high...
|
|
|
Post by erik on Dec 24, 2021 13:19:12 GMT -5
There is also the Bach/Gounod "Ave Maria", in which the Hymn to the Virgin Mary was grafted by the French composer Charles Gounod onto the Prelude No. 1 In C Major of Johann Sebastian Bach.
Barbra Streisand's take on it, from her 1967 Christmas album:
Kiri Te Kanawa, with the Utah Symphony Orchestra conducted by Julius Rudel:
|
|
|
Post by musedeva on Dec 24, 2021 17:06:46 GMT -5
lINDA AND AARON'S Ave Maria...is just EVERYTHING to moi!!
Nice to see Props to Mariahs' All I Want...that's another "staple" to me, vocally
I'm gonna learn that shelleys blues....never got onto that
HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE....War is (almost) Pandemically...OVER...and YES, we want it!!
|
|
|
Post by musedeva on Dec 24, 2021 17:50:50 GMT -5
WOW!!! whatever happened to her???!! she's GREAT.....never heard of her............. Gayle McCormick and Smith/What Am I Going to Do - Think I posted this one once before but can't find it now. Some of the songs we have posted are missing, which is odd because the songs are still on Youtube. Anyway, Gayle had a super version of this Carole King-Toni Stern song from 1969-70, which sadly, the public wasn't interested. Gayle and this song deserved better. And it's a song I wished Linda had recorded in the mid-to-late 70s. She could've nailed it.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 24, 2021 23:39:25 GMT -5
That would have been cool for her to be on The Monkees Show. I am not hearing Linda do "I Only Want to Be with You". I think Linda could have done DS's "The Wanderer" Good song for "Get Closer". eddiejinnj Forgot to add, with regard to I Only Wanna Be With You, the song to me always sounded like a country song. Especially when it gets to the lyric, You stopped to smile and asked me if I cared to dance/I fell into your open arms and I didn't stand a chance. When it came to that section of the song, I could always hear a steel guitar being played in my head. If Linda had done the song, it definitely would've been with a countryish arrangement.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 24, 2021 23:57:03 GMT -5
WOW!!! whatever happened to her???!! she's GREAT.....never heard of her............. Gayle passed away at the age of 67 from cancer on March 1, 2016. Gayle was a member of the group Smith, and she led the group to a Top 40 hit with a dynamic cover of Baby, It's You. Gayle was at a party, which I believe was held at Graham Nash's house andsomeone gave her a drink which was spiked with LSD. Gayle ended up in the hospital because of that and was out of music for a short time. She related the story on American Bandstand in 1971, when she appeared on the show to promote It's a Cryin' Shame, which was written and produced by Dennis Lambert and Brian Potter. Lambert and Potter were hot songwriters at the time, writing a few hits for the likes such as the Grass Roots, Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds and Coven, who had a hit with a remake of One Tin Soldier. Gayle's Lambert-Potter song incredibly missed the Top 40 and she continued to release singles and albums throughout most of the 70s. She retired from music in 1976 and moved to Hawaii when she married, and then moved back to St. Louis when she divorced. She worked for the Venture department store chain before that chain closed down and was recognized by fans while shopping in the store. The fans found her approachable and she enjoyed being able to talk to them. She was laid to rest at Mount Lebanon Cemetery in the town of Saint Ann, Missouri, which is just to the west northwest of St. Louis. Gayle's 1969 hit with Smith
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Dec 25, 2021 0:06:05 GMT -5
Another Nesmith song Linda could've done, Nine Times Blue,featured here in two versions by the Monkees, one with Mike on lead and the other with Davy on lead. Does the one with Davy on lead remind anyone of the arrangement on Linda's version of Some of Shelly's Blues?
First recorded version, sung by Mike
Second recorded version, sung by Davy. This arrangement makes me think it was meant for Linda, even though it was sung by Davy. Also makes me wonder if Mike produced Linda's version of Some of Shelly's Blues, and if possibly Mike wanted Linda to record Nine Times Blue? And for whatever reason, she didn't or it remains unreleased - which could be a possibility.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 19:14:57 GMT -5
Roy for Linda
|
|
|
Post by erik on Dec 30, 2021 19:31:09 GMT -5
I definitely can conceive of Linda doing "In Dreams", this being a second time for rock's equivalent of Maria Callas covering rock's Enrico Caruso.
On a more meditative level, there is "The Right Moment", a 1982 track from the late Gerry Rafferty (he remembered most for his 6 1/2-minute 1978 epic "Baker Street":
|
|
|
Post by Biff McFly on Dec 31, 2021 10:17:13 GMT -5
I've been listening to the original version of "Everybody's Talkin' " by Fred Neil. I was only familiar with Nilsson's version (that came out in 1968, flopped and re-released in 1969 because of 'Midnight Cowboy'). I was surprised the song (Fred Neil's version which he also wrote) was originally released in 1966. I was even more surprised that Nik Venet produced Fred Neil's version. I wonder why Nik Venet didn't pitch the song to Linda as a follow up to "Different Drum". The original version was very good though different than Nilsson's version. Herb Cohen also managed Fred Neil.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 13:33:18 GMT -5
I've been listening to the original version of "Everybody's Talkin' " by Fred Neil. I was only familiar with Nilsson's version (that came out in 1968, flopped and re-released in 1969 because of 'Midnight Cowboy'). I was surprised the song (Fred Neil's version which he also wrote) was originally released in 1966. I was even more surprised that Nik Venet produced Fred Neil's version. I wonder why Nik Venet didn't pitch the song to Linda as a follow up to "Different Drum". The original version was very good though different than Nilsson's version. Herb Cohen also managed Fred Neil. Fred's style was closer to Linda's would be. Harry Nilsson's production was ahead of the time, more Peter Asher perhaps, or Brian Wilson.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2022 16:39:11 GMT -5
Another from Roy O.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jan 1, 2022 21:26:05 GMT -5
I definitely can conceive of Linda doing "In Dreams", this being a second time for rock's equivalent of Maria Callas covering rock's Enrico Caruso. On a more meditative level, there is "The Right Moment", a 1982 track from the late Gerry Rafferty (he remembered most for his 6 1/2-minute 1978 epic "Baker Street": Olivia Newton-John recorded The Right Moment for her 1984 album Soul Kiss, which aside from the title song, was the best track on the album. I could've seen Linda doing the song if she wasn't into her Tin Pan Alley period, although she could've given Gerry's song a beautiful, almost heavenly arrangement with the orchestration. That was something I thought Linda should've done in the 80s: contemporary pop-rock songs with 1930s-40s orchestral arrangements. Most artists who tackled the Tin Pan Alley (and I'm sorry to anyone who may be offended, but I will not refer to TPA songs as being the Great American Songbook by themselves. I believe all songs that have been written by American songwriters from any era should be included under that term. Olivia's version of The Right Moment.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jan 1, 2022 21:33:09 GMT -5
I've been listening to the original version of "Everybody's Talkin' " by Fred Neil. I was only familiar with Nilsson's version (that came out in 1968, flopped and re-released in 1969 because of 'Midnight Cowboy'). I was surprised the song (Fred Neil's version which he also wrote) was originally released in 1966. I was even more surprised that Nik Venet produced Fred Neil's version. I wonder why Nik Venet didn't pitch the song to Linda as a follow up to "Different Drum". The original version was very good though different than Nilsson's version. Herb Cohen also managed Fred Neil. Everybody's Talkin' would've been a good song for Linda to have done. I liked her cover of Fred's The Dolphins. It was one of the best songs from Hand Sown, Home Grown and I always thought it deserved consideration as a single, although Capitol probably would've done some whittling (editing) to get it down from four minutes.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jan 1, 2022 21:34:25 GMT -5
Think Linda would've loved doing this simple but lovely ballad:
Diane Hildebrand/From Rea Who Died Last Summer
|
|
|
Post by musedeva on Jan 2, 2022 2:12:45 GMT -5
Totally!!! Can hear MamacittaH doing this!! Yes!!
...but wait....DID K.D. already???
|
|
|
Post by musedeva on Jan 2, 2022 2:15:10 GMT -5
My Gawdess...this one is Grabbing me....seems like High Holy Moments indeed....I love gerry
....I've been aiming to do Supertramp for a long time....epic vibes these Cats
I definitely can conceive of Linda doing "In Dreams", this being a second time for rock's equivalent of Maria Callas covering rock's Enrico Caruso. On a more meditative level, there is "The Right Moment", a 1982 track from the late Gerry Rafferty (he remembered most for his 6 1/2-minute 1978 epic "Baker Street":
|
|