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Post by sliderocker on Nov 29, 2021 12:28:14 GMT -5
Back to the songs Linda could have covered: " Power Of My Love"--Elvis Presley (from his epochal 1969 album Power of My Love was a song that was written by Elvis's hack songwriters (in critic Dave Marsh's words), which if you read the songwriting credits, they did write a good number of the movie soundtrack songs. But, so did Sid Tepper and Roy C. Bennett, Ben Weisman, Joy Byers (wife of Bob Johnston, who produced Charlie Daniels - Johnston said he really wrote the songs although Joy was a songwriter as well). Bill Giant, Bernie Baum and Florence Kaye wrote Power of My Love but in fairness to them and to all the other Elvis songwriters whom Marsh slagged as hacks, the one part of the equation Marsh leaves out is Colonel Parker's role in the songs they wrote for Elvis. Parker took away a lot of the songwriting and publishing income, even though Elvis told him to stop taking their income. Many of the songwriters retaliated by using songs whose melodies were in the public domain. If Parker was going to take everything, why write anything substantial? I don't blame them one bit. None of the songwriters ever blamed Elvis. They understood he fought Parker for them. But, his songwriters came up with good works. The team of Giant, Baum and Kaye also penned one of Elvis's early 60s hit, (You're the) Devil In Disguise. They also have the misfortune of writing the majority of songs that were chosen for Elvis's movie Harum Scarum. The two best songs from that debacle were not included in the movie but as bonus songs, Animal Instinct and Wisdom of the Ages, both of which could've used a better mix. Power of My Love is a song I wish Linda had tried, although if she had done the song, it probably would've been when she was younger, in her 20s. I tend to believe that as she got older, she was so different from who she was in the 60s and 70s, and even early 80s, that songs she might have recorded in her 20s and 30s, she wouldn't have considered later in her mid 30s and older. Especially as she got into the Tin Pan Alley songbooks and Broadway. The irony here is that many of Elvis's songwriters (including Giant-Baum-Kaye, Weisman, Tepper-Bennett) actually had their start as Tin Pan Alley songwriters, and they had no aversion to writing rock and roll. And some even wrote for ol'Blue Eyes, whom Linda favored more in the 80s than the rock and roll artists and scene she was part of in the 60s and 70s. Linda was pretty knowledgeable about songwriting, yet it's hard to believe she was unaware of Elvis's connection to Tin Pan Alley songwriters.
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Post by sliderocker on Nov 29, 2021 12:37:41 GMT -5
I was thinking I had included this one before. It may have been one of the videos that disappeared.
Bonnie Guitar/Dark Moon
And this song from the Band. I was going to suggest The Night They Drove Ol' Dixie Down, but that song is so closely identified with Joan Baez, and really, she made the song hers. She connected and I don't think Linda could've done as good of a cover as Joan did, so I went with another song by the Band.
Jackie DeShannon covered this song in 1968 and had a minor hit with it. Jackie should've had a lot of hits, but despite being a singer-songwriter-musician-producer, she didn't really do all that well for herself personally. The band Smith also recorded this song, although it did not feature singer Gayle McCormick as the lead vocalist, but as backing vocalist. That was a mistake. Gayle might have delivered a knockout of a blues performance. She could do the blues as easily as she could do rock and roll.
The Band/The Weight
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 14:38:11 GMT -5
This song for "Cry..Howl.." From "Les Miserables"
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Post by erik on Nov 29, 2021 19:24:50 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker re. Tin Pan Alley songwriters writing in rock and roll:
A further irony here, it seems to me, is that these Tin Pan Alley songwriters could write rock and roll, as they did so well with "You're The Devil In Disguise" and "Power Of My Love" for Elvis, when encouraged to do so--but The Colonel, who seemed to think maybe an hour or two ahead instead of seeing the big picture, didn't let them for so long.
I also muse this one from the folk music revival/scare of the early 1960's, a big hit for the Kingston Trio in 1962 that was written by no less than Pete Seeger: "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?":
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Post by sliderocker on Nov 29, 2021 22:34:17 GMT -5
A further irony here, it seems to me, is that these Tin Pan Alley songwriters could write rock and roll, as they did so well with "You're The Devil In Disguise" and "Power Of My Love" for Elvis, when encouraged to do so--but The Colonel, who seemed to think maybe an hour or two ahead instead of seeing the big picture, didn't let them for so long. I also muse this one from the folk music revival/scare of the early 1960's, a big hit for the Kingston Trio in 1962 that was written by no less than Pete Seeger: " Where Have All The Flowers Gone?
I hate saying it, but I think when Linda graduated to recording songs from the Tin Pan Alley school, she got a little snobbish or uppity about it, and started channeling the Frank Sinatra of the 50s who dissed rock and rollers. By the 60s, Sinatra had mellowed out to recognize the rock audience wasn't his audience and he more or less stopped with the dissing. Linda went from being the pop-country-rock hippie of the 60s and 70s in wanting to do more mature songs that appealed to adults. Which was okay, but, Linda's core market were those of us who became fans in the 60s and 70s, and even 80s. So there might have been some trepidation. And I think they went along with Linda on her changes in musical directions, but I don't think they were prepared for the cold water she threw on the music that brought her to the attention of those fans. Re: Linda doing Where Have All the Flowers Gone. I wonder how Linda would've done with a retro-folk album, doing songs like Where Have All the Flowers Gone. Back in the day when Andrew and Kenny were still in the band. Given Linda's love of harmony, I have to believe that would've been one project she would've loved doing, although in a stripped down setting, with maybe Dan Dugmore and Mike Botts completing the group line up and no guest superstar appearances. Maybe just Valerie Carter and Wendy Waldman on backing vocals?
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Post by erik on Nov 29, 2021 22:57:53 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
All of what you've said there is true, and it is perhaps the most problematic thing I have had with Linda. I mean, it's fine if you are going to do Tin Pan Alley and the Great American Songbook, but not only should she have not been Sinatra-level snobbish about it, she also should not have dissed the audience that first got around to appreciate her. And there had been times when I felt she didn't give her audiences all that much credit for being thoughtful--a terrible mistake for any performer to make, but when it came to Linda it was truly catastrophic, particularly when you look at the neglibile album sales she had after 1990.
But onward and upward:
Much gets made about how Jimmy Webb has had two very prominent champions, Linda herself, and Glen Campbell. And one song of his that music critics as far back as the mid-1970's had thought was right for Linda to cover that came from Webb's pen is 'Just This One Time", which GC recorded on his Jimmy Webb-produced Reunion album in 1974:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 8:50:39 GMT -5
Since folksy harmony, how about this as a Linda & Aaron Neville & co effort?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 9:15:21 GMT -5
A further irony here, it seems to me, is that these Tin Pan Alley songwriters could write rock and roll, as they did so well with "You're The Devil In Disguise" and "Power Of My Love" for Elvis, when encouraged to do so--but The Colonel, who seemed to think maybe an hour or two ahead instead of seeing the big picture, didn't let them for so long. I also muse this one from the folk music revival/scare of the early 1960's, a big hit for the Kingston Trio in 1962 that was written by no less than Pete Seeger: " Where Have All The Flowers Gone?
I hate saying it, but I think when Linda graduated to recording songs from the Tin Pan Alley school, she got a little snobbish or uppity about it, and started channeling the Frank Sinatra of the 50s who dissed rock and rollers. By the 60s, Sinatra had mellowed out to recognize the rock audience wasn't his audience and he more or less stopped with the dissing. Linda went from being the pop-country-rock hippie of the 60s and 70s in wanting to do more mature songs that appealed to adults. Which was okay, but, Linda's core market were those of us who became fans in the 60s and 70s, and even 80s. So there might have been some trepidation. And I think they went along with Linda on her changes in musical directions, but I don't think they were prepared for the cold water she threw on the music that brought her to the attention of those fans. Re: Linda doing Where Have All the Flowers Gone. I wonder how Linda would've done with a retro-folk album, doing songs like Where Have All the Flowers Gone. Back in the day when Andrew and Kenny were still in the band. Given Linda's love of harmony, I have to believe that would've been one project she would've loved doing, although in a stripped down setting, with maybe Dan Dugmore and Mike Botts completing the group line up and no guest superstar appearances. Maybe just Valerie Carter and Wendy Waldman on backing vocals? It seems to me Linda never realised, or maybe was never told properly, how her voice and singing affected listeners emotionally. Not bitchy catty journalists or trendy purists, but ordinary people like we here. Perhaps her stage fright and general shyness triggered a disconnect & spurning of fans. Tin pan alley songs/standards are overated. They were bread winners for singers & writers of their era, but reverence for them needs to not be overblown. Linda liked them from her childhood radio listening, fair enough, wanted to sing them, fair enough, but elevate them over her own era's songs and her previous singing was a misjudgement to me. I think Linda's awe came from working with Nelson Riddle, his arrangements, and orchestra. The elegance of pre-rock pop, Riddle's fatherly genius and more gentile mood probably made Linda feel like going from Cinderella to Princess.
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Post by sliderocker on Nov 30, 2021 20:33:31 GMT -5
All of what you've said there is true, and it is perhaps the most problematic thing I have had with Linda. I mean, it's fine if you are going to do Tin Pan Alley and the Great American Songbook, but not only should she have not been Sinatra-level snobbish about it, she also should not have dissed the audience that first got around to appreciate her. And there had been times when I felt she didn't give her audiences all that much credit for being thoughtful--a terrible mistake for any performer to make, but when it came to Linda it was truly catastrophic, particularly when you look at the neglibile album sales she had after 1990.
Linda continues to be disrespectful, I think, with regard to rock music and the rock audience, and the general audiences of today probably don't really care all that much. However, the issue as I see it is Linda is going to be remembered as a rock musician and singer. Or maybe a country-rock singer. And she's got all these interviews where she said one thing, only to backtrack and say something else later. In the 60s and early 70s, when she was striving to be a country singer and gave interviews supporting that ambition, she also gave interviews where she also spoke about being a rock singer. And then dissing both genres years later.
Same with dissing Elvis on never growing as an artist but artists like Merle Haggard and Frank Sinatra (and some other artists) grew as artists. Haggard wrote some good songs but he was a country singer and never branched from that genre. Likewise, Frank was a good crooner and pop performer, but I don't believe he ever got out of his comfort zone either. Elvis was like Linda, all over the musical map.
I don't believe Linda listened to all of Elvis's work (with 711 songs recorded for RCA between 1956 and his death in 1977, and not counting the Sun material or home recordings or the Million Dollar Quartet recordings), it's practically impossible to play all those songs in one sitting. Same for Sinatra and same for Haggard. Sinatra would likewise be impossible to play every song he recorded or that was recorded off of radio in the 30s and 40s. Haggard's total wouldn't be as large and might be easier, but he had a lot of albums as well.
Linda's dismissal of Elvis comes from the generation that viewed Elvis as a viable artist only when he was on Sun. Would some of us who were around when Linda burst on the national scene in 1967 was only a viable artist when she was on Sidewalk Records with Bobby and Kenny? I hardly think so, but aside from the recording Linda made with her brother and sister, pre-Stone Poneys recordings on small labels are non-existent.
Sun was Elvis's beginning but it was not his finish, just as Sidewalk was only Linda's beginning and not her finish. And Elvis definitely grew as an artist and the number of artists he listened to was an astounding number. I've always wondered if Elvis listened to Linda and I have to think that has to be an affirmative, given Lisa listened to Linda. But, what may have shocked Linda was I think it's possible Elvis listened to Linda's Mexican relative, Lola Beltran. He had a rather large record collection, singles and albums. And he loved Mexican or Latino music.
But onward and upward:
Much gets made about how Jimmy Webb has had two very prominent champions, Linda herself, and Glen Campbell. And one song of his that music critics as far back as the mid-1970's had thought was right for Linda to cover that came from Webb's pen is 'Just This One Time", which GC recorded on his Jimmy Webb-produced Reunion album in 1974:
Just to get back to Where Have All the Flowers Gone, that would've been a good title for an album by Linda of folk songs. I'm listening to the song by Jimmy Webb and recorded by Glen Campbell, and I think that would've been a good song for a folk project for Linda. Sort of makes me what kind of songs Linda could've come up with for a modern folk album. Darcy Farrow and Nobody's Child are two such songs I think would've been good fits for Linda on a folk album. Have two additional song I'm going to post in a second but not here as this has gotten kind of wordy. And I'd rather leave the songs where everyone can hear them and weigh in, if they so choose.
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Post by sliderocker on Nov 30, 2021 20:47:19 GMT -5
This one might come as a shocker for a folk album by Linda, but if an artist can rearrange songs by the Beatles as country songs, why not a song by Procol Harum. Rearranged as a folk song, I think it would've worked for Linda.
Procol Harum/A Whiter Shade of Pale
And this song by the Pozo Seco Singers, which included future country singer Don Williams. It's a folk song to begin with, and it's a nice one.
Pozo Seco Singers/Time
Not many people may recognize this song, but it's an early song, 1964-65, by future Monkees guitarist Michael Nesmith, with a Byrds-like folk-rock composition by Nesmith. Credited to Mike, John (London) and Bill, this was on one of those small record companies. Mike did not remember the producer at all. Only half of the 45 was Mike John and Bill. The flip, an instrumental, belonged to another artist. This would've been a good song for Linda to have done back in the 60s.
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Post by erik on Nov 30, 2021 23:47:10 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
Yes, I had an unbelievably extreme problem with what she said about Elvis, since, even with the interminable series of B-movies he made at his cigar-chomping manager's behest during the 1960's when he should have been putting out great albums and singles on the consistent basis everyone and his grandmother knew him capable of, he still had moments of greatness right up to the last. What she said about Elvis was totally off-base, and I made no bones about it.
But I'd like to get back to the topic at hand, and explore some more possibilities.
Like, say, this 1979 hit for Sir Elton John, "Mama Can't Buy You Love", which the Rocket Man recorded in Philadelphia with the Spinners on backing vocals:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 15:06:58 GMT -5
I think Linda could have sung this very well...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2021 7:09:12 GMT -5
Couple of Christmas songs I wish Linda had sung
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 2, 2021 22:37:19 GMT -5
But I'd like to get back to the topic at hand, and explore some more possibilities. Like, say, this 1979 hit for Sir Elton John, " Mama Can't Buy You Love", which the Rocket Man recorded in Philadelphia with the Spinners on backing vocals: Re: Mama Can't Buy You LoveOne of the few times an Elton John song inspired one of my songs. When I heard this song way back in the 80s, I wrote a song which had the same kind of musical feel, titled Candy's Gone. It was kind of about child abuse, as in kids not feeling they were loved by their parents or family. More possibilities: Cat Stevens/Morning Has Broken This has always been one of Cat's (or Yusef's) best songs ever and it would've been awesome if Linda would've recorded a version of the song. Maybe it was on her list of songs she wished she had recorded. I'd sure like to get a look at her list one day. Neil Diamond/Red, Red Wine Have never heard a female performer sing this Neil Diamond song. And it has a countryish feel to it, and would've been right up Linda's country back roads. B.W. Stevenson/On My Own The late B.W. Stevenson is another singer-songwriter-musician I've ever heard covered by a female artist. And this song likewise would've been right up Linda's country back roads.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2021 14:38:12 GMT -5
My favourite Elvis Christmas song, that Linda could have sung just as well IMO.
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Post by eddiejinnj on Dec 3, 2021 16:59:24 GMT -5
Way cool "The Lion Sleeps Tonight". Was just thinking of that song the other day. Man, I loved that song when I was like 8 yrs old. They def could do it but, imo, have to keep a similar beat and overall tone. It does remind me of Linda doing "Under African Skies". eddiejinnj
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2021 18:29:13 GMT -5
Way cool "The Lion Sleeps Tonight". Was just thinking of that song the other day. Man, I loved that song when I was like 8 yrs old. They def could do it but, imo, have to keep a similar beat and overall tone. It does remind me of Linda doing "Under African Skies". eddiejinnj Nanci Griffith did a short
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2021 8:26:06 GMT -5
One for a Linda & Emmylou duet
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Post by erik on Dec 4, 2021 13:22:34 GMT -5
Re. "If Every Day Was Just Like Christmas"--Obviously Linda could have done this song. It of course would have had a different kind of gravitas from what The King did (which goes without saying), but it would be on the same level (IMHO).
Then there's this Steve Young-penned classic "Seven Bridges Road", that her favorite in-house desperados had a minor hit with in early 1981 (their last hit before their 14 year-long "vacation"):
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Post by musedeva on Dec 4, 2021 22:23:18 GMT -5
Always wanted to do this one.....with a real whack accompaniment Since folksy harmony, how about this as a Linda & Aaron Neville & co effort?
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Post by eddiejinnj on Dec 5, 2021 5:57:07 GMT -5
One of my fav song titles; "A Whiter Shade of Pale". Harum's version is like so many genres in one, imo. It is folk southern country rock blues, lol eddiejinnj
PS: It is also slightly baroque.
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Post by eddiejinnj on Dec 5, 2021 6:23:18 GMT -5
Red Red Wine is one of those songs you hate to love. But maybe I just don't like it. :-) All have a great Sunday! eddiejinnj
I just can't see Linda singing: "Red Red Wine you make me feel so fine."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2021 14:09:13 GMT -5
"S/he Thinks I Still Care" First sung by George Jones.
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Post by erik on Dec 7, 2021 19:17:19 GMT -5
Re. "He/She Thinks I Still Care": I think Anne Murray kind of beat Linda to the punch with it, as her version got to #1 on the C&W singles chart in the spring of 1974. The A-side of that version was "You Won't See Me", written by a couple of guys named Lennon and McCartney, and a #7 pop hit for Anne.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 6:51:52 GMT -5
Abba 1979, the song "Supertrouper" took its place on that album . This below for Linda to cover, partly sung in Spanish.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 17:06:42 GMT -5
Imagine, Linda duetting with Ray Charles, but this would be good with Emmylou too.
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 9, 2021 19:54:02 GMT -5
Red Red Wine is one of those songs you hate to love. But maybe I just don't like it. :-) All have a great Sunday! eddiejinnj
I just can't see Linda singing: "Red Red Wine you make me feel so fine."
Neil is an acquired taste for some. I didn't much care for some of his later 70s and 80s work, where whoever was arranging his songs was just drenching the songs in syrupy strings. He should've remembered less is more.
Red, Red Wine was part of Neil's Bang catalogue, which he recorded in 1966 and 1967 and for which Bang almost wrung the 25 or so songs he recorded almost dry with numerous reissues and variations. I'm guessing you're thinking of the version by UB40 had in the 90s with the song. I couldn't stand that version either. I haven't found a version by Neil as yet where he sings, 'red, red wine, you make me feel so fine.' Neil's version is definitely in a countryish vein, though no steel but with strings.
If Linda had sung Red Red Wine with the UB40 lyric, I would've said she had some 'splainin'to do and maybe a spankin' comin'. But, my hope would've been that she recorded the song in her pre-Heart Like a Wheel days. And not in the UB40 90s.
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 9, 2021 20:13:42 GMT -5
Re. "He/She Thinks I Still Care": I think Anne Murray kind of beat Linda to the punch with it, as her version got to #1 on the C&W singles chart in the spring of 1974. The A-side of that version was "You Won't See Me", written by a couple of guys named Lennon and McCartney, and a #7 pop hit for Anne. With Linda's emphasis on earlier country early in her career, it's surprising she didn't record a version of He Thinks I Still Care. I liked Anne Murray but there were some songs I thought she was just all wrong for. Her versions of He Thinks I Still Care and A Stranger In My Place (by Kenny Rogers and Kin Vassy), being two such songs. I thought both of those songs would've been better choices for Linda than Anne, but as Linda was rather choosy as to what she recorded,there's no telling if she would've been up to record the songs (or any of the songs mentioned here) or if she would've shut someone down for suggesting a certain song be recorded. I wonder to a degree if part of Linda's jump to Asylum could've had something to do with Capitol getting hits on Anne and Helen Reddy, and other female artists who were on the label at the time? Linda must've felt some degree of insecurity that others signed to Capitol were successful and getting hits (a lot of hits in some cases) while she was coming up mostly empty by comparison. And while Capitol may not have known how to promote her, that's only part of the trouble they had. Another part of Linda's problem was her steadfast refusal to listen to the powers that be at the label. She didn't have to turn down every song they suggested, especially given her own choices wasn't all that good.
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Post by erik on Dec 9, 2021 20:48:43 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
It's difficult to know what Linda should or shouldn't have done, because, in my opinion, no matter what she did then or what she'd do afterwards, someone or other was bound to criticize her for it. My whole worldview on this is that Linda was at the forefront of a particular left-of-center style of country, much less Nashville and more California in nature; and it was not necessarily something that anyone at Capitol could have easily placed in one neat little box. I think they meant well, and Linda (in her own strong-willed way) did too, but the ends just didn't meet until Heart Like A Wheel; and by then, Linda was out the door.
And anyway, like any record label (even Asylum to a certain extent), Capitol wanted hit singles from their artists. The only problem was that Linda wasn't exactly just a singles artist, nor was she a single-genre artist either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 3:42:05 GMT -5
To me Linda was more an album artist, but she needed Peter Asher's industry head to ensure a mix of styles, and stop her from becoming too one-way. His respect for Linda though is what made for a great partnership.
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