Opportunities/Projects that might have been

[fabtastique]

Wishful thinking early this morning ... there are a few projects or opportunities that I'm surprised Linda didn't explore more than she has or that we not preserved for posterity.

Anyone else have "what might have beens"??

[Richard W]

There's always the long'talked about but never-realized album with J.D. Souther.

Ditto the album of Jimmy Webb songs.

And some studio work between Linda and Phoebe Snow would have been priceless.

[erik]

One project I kind of wished she had done was an album that combined her country, rock, and Mexican influences together, possibly with a mix of songs in both English and Spanish. Since the Mexican influence is noticeable on a number of prominent songs ("Lo Siento Mi Vida"; "Carmelita"; "Blue Bayou"; "Adonde Voy"; "The Dreams Of The San Joaquin"), it would seem to me that this combination could give her the kind of musical challenge that she has thrived on.

[fabtastique]

Of course, the Jimmy Webb album. Would have loved to hear her do Wichita Lineman (Maria McKee does a great live version).

[profstadt]

I would like to have seen more recordings with with James Taylor.

[cymru56]

Jun 20, 2012 8:48:48 GMT -5 erik said:

One project I kind of wished she had done was an album that combined her country, rock, and Mexican influences together, possibly with a mix of songs in both English and Spanish. Since the Mexican influence is noticeable on a number of prominent songs ("Lo Siento Mi Vida"; "Carmelita"; "Blue Bayou"; "Adonde Voy"; "The Dreams Of The San Joaquin"), it would seem to me that this combination could give her the kind of musical challenge that she has thrived on.

I wonder whether Linda considered this area to be covered by Tish Hinojosa and didn't want to intrude ?

[cymru56]

I recall us suggesting potential duet partners on the old board, but don't think we ever discussed the ideal song for each match?

[erik]

Quote by cymru56 re. mix of Mexican, country, and rock:

I wonder whether Linda considered this area to be covered by Tish Hinojosa and didn't want to intrude ?

Tish does consider herself a fan of Linda's, and not only because of their ethnic backgrounds; she listened to Linda a lot while growing up in San Antonio during the 1970s. I think Tish considers herself more of an ethnic folk artist, however.

When I suggested a more direct mix of Mexican, country, and rock, I was thinking more along the lines of mixing Mexican rhythms and guitars, with the use of marimba (like on "Blue Bayou"), occasional woodwinds, strings, and mariachi brass, and the familiar California country-rock instrumentation.

[cymru56]

I see- in a similar way to the Eagles "New Kid In Town" ?

[cymru56]

There's a good example of this style mix in this recent performance by Tom Jones


This reminds me that an absolute classic I would have loved to hear Linda perform was Marty Robbins "El Paso" !

[erik]

Quote by cymru56:

I see- in a similar way to the Eagles "New Kid In Town" ?

Yes, very much along those lines, a kind of vibe being established in which the Anglo and Mexican styles mix in a way that Linda would know how to do better than anyone.

[kgreen]

Jun 20, 2012 2:52:46 GMT -5 fabtastique said:

Wishful thinking early this morning ... there are a few projects or opportunities that I'm surprised Linda didn't explore more than she has or that we not preserved for posterity.

Anyone else have "what might have beens"??

La Boheme certainly was recorded (sound and video) by the Public Theatre. When the show started they provided video clips to the TV stations for reporting purposes. I imagine they have something along the quality of the Pirates in the Park video which was released. I don't think anyone has clamored for it, maybe a few letters to the Broadway Archive or to the Public Theatre might get them thinking of a release.

Someone else mentioned Linda/JD duets. Linda had mentioned in an interview that they had recorded duets and were working on a record. I am sure some of those recorded tracks are somewhere....how to get them released??

Linda needs a music historian to delve into her career and put these things out, not just wait for her to pass and put out stuff like they do with so many artists. Hopefully she lives to a 100!

[MokyWI]

Johnny Cash used a Mariachi horn section at the end of "Ring of Fire"...

[Partridge]

When Linda decides to unretire, I'd like an album of Woody Guthrie songs. Something low key like that she can just record at home with friends.

And an album of Green Day songs.

And I'd really like an album of Jimmy Webb songs, even if they have to just repackage the ones she has already recorded, and maybe add a couple they already have in the can and record three or four new ones.

[sliderocker]

I'd like to have seen Linda record an album's worth of songs on which each and every song was written or cowritten by Linda herself. She said she came up with all of "Try Me Again," although Andrew contributed something to the song's bridge that got him half of the songwriting credit. And anyone who could write a song with a melody like that likely had the potential to come up with many just as good, if not better. I think that for whatever reason, Linda wasn't encouraged as a songwriter or didn't believe in herself as a songwriter. Could someone else who had believed in her capabilities have made a difference? I think so.

Personally, as for Linda recording songs by what I call the usual suspects (Webb, Taylor, Bacharach-David, Newman, etc.), I'd rather have had Linda cover songs by not so well known songwriters and not so well known songs or lesser known songs from songwriters who are well known. Many artists always seem to want to cover songwriters like Bacharach-David, Dylan, Webb, et al, and while Linda could put her distinctive stamp on any of their songs and has done so in the past, I liked it when she often took the musical road less travelled by other performers. She could be more revealing as a performer with a lesser known song than a song with many, many covers.

[MokyWI]

I was looking forward to the other one w/Savoy myself. Wonder what happened with that plan? ....I know... The first one didn't sell...I am not so sure that was the only reason. My guess is Ronstadt decided after her health issue she didn't need to stress herself with continuing her recording/and then having to promote career.

[erik]

Quote by sliderocker re. songwriting:

I'd like to have seen Linda record an album's worth of songs on which each and every song was written or cowritten by Linda herself. She said she came up with all of "Try Me Again," although Andrew contributed something to the song's bridge that got him half of the songwriting credit. And anyone who could write a song with a melody like that likely had the potential to come up with many just as good, if not better. I think that for whatever reason, Linda wasn't encouraged as a songwriter or didn't believe in herself as a songwriter. Could someone else who had believed in her capabilities have made a difference? I think so.

With respect to writing her own songs, it was really Kenny Edwards and Andrew Gold who actually encouraged her, and helped her with, respectively, "Lo Siento Mi Vida" and "Try Me Again"; and in fact, she was actively encouraged by a lot of people around her, including J.D. Souther, because they believed in her. She may simply not have had enough confidence to do it much more than she did, although there was "I Want A Horse" (with Wendy Waldman, for the In Harmony children's album), and "Winter Light" (with Eric Kaz and Zbignew Preisner, for the film THE SECRET GARDEN).

Re. covering lesser-known songs and/or songwriters:

Personally, as for Linda recording songs by what I call the usual suspects (Webb, Taylor, Bacharach-David, Newman, etc.), I'd rather have had Linda cover songs by not so well known songwriters and not so well known songs or lesser known songs from songwriters who are well known. Many artists always seem to want to cover songwriters like Bacharach-David, Dylan, Webb, et al, and while Linda could put her distinctive stamp on any of their songs and has done so in the past, I liked it when she often took the musical road less travelled by other performers. She could be more revealing as a performer with a lesser known song than a song with many, many covers.

What kind of gets overlooked a lot is that Linda did indeed do a lot of songs by writers who weren't necessarily "stars": Gary White (who wrote "Long Long Time") is one that comes to mind; and Tish Hinojosa, an inveterate fan of Linda's since her teenage years in San Antonio in the early 1970s, was very thrilled when Linda recorded "Adonde Voy." There are many other examples, but they tend to be overshadowed by her attachment to her own circle of songwriting friends a lot of the time.

[sliderocker]

Jun 26, 2012 20:18:20 GMT -5 MokyWI said:

I was looking forward to the other one w/Savoy myself. Wonder what happened with that plan? ....I know... The first one didn't sell...I am not so sure that was the only reason. My guess is Ronstadt decided after her health issue she didn't need to stress herself with continuing her recording/and then having to promote career.

It's possible neither could find the time to coordinate their schedules to record the sequel, although it may also be that Linda came to the decision that she just wanted to retire around that time. Health issues may have played a part in her reduced vocal power althought that could've just been an age related issue. Paul McCartney once remarked he didn't have the same power in his voice that he once had, although he has kept going and going with what he does have. One's voice not being what it once was does raise the issue of should a singer consider retiring? It's a personal decision each must make but I think none of us here would want Linda to keep going if her beautiful voice isn't what it once was and she was either limited to singing songs that didn't require much from her or she had some difficulty in recording any song. How many of her critics, detractors and even fans would've suggested it was time for her to retire because her voice had weakened but she had decided to keep going instead?

[sliderocker]

With respect to writing her own songs, it was really Kenny Edwards and Andrew Gold who actually encouraged her, and helped her with, respectively, "Lo Siento Mi Vida" and "Try Me Again"; and in fact, she was actively encouraged by a lot of people around her, including J.D. Souther, because they believed in her. She may simply not have had enough confidence to do it much more than she did, although there was "I Want A Horse" (with Wendy Waldman, for the In Harmony children's album), and "Winter Light" (with Eric Kaz and Zbignew Preisner, for the film THE SECRET GARDEN).

I've always wondered why during the Stone Poneys era, Kenny and Bob didn't try to involve Linda in the songwriting? I think she probably lacked confidence in herself or wasn't encouraged by her management and record company, or maybe it was just an area of the music business in which she wasn't really interested in doing it on a full time basis or a part time basis. Maybe it was all three but I do feel that she could have and should have tried her hand more at songwriting. Pity Andrew and/or Kenny and/or J.D. didn't take it upon themselves to get Linda more involved in writing songs. If I had been one of the people who was writing songs for Linda on a regular basis, I would've been encouraging her to sit down and write with me.



Re. covering lesser-known songs and/or songwriters:

What kind of gets overlooked a lot is that Linda did indeed do a lot of songs by writers who weren't necessarily "stars": Gary White (who wrote "Long Long Time") is one that comes to mind; and Tish Hinojosa, an inveterate fan of Linda's since her teenage years in San Antonio in the early 1970s, was very thrilled when Linda recorded "Adonde Voy." There are many other examples, but they tend to be overshadowed by her attachment to her own circle of songwriting friends a lot of the time.

That's very true. J.D., Karla Bonoff and the McGarrigle sisters weren't really household names when Linda recorded their songs, and when she recorded their songs, people may have thought she was the first to record them. Even Jackson Browne wasn't much of a househhold name when Linda recorded her version of "Rock Me On The Water." Linda could've benefitted if she had had some sort of publishing company set up or her management and/or record company had directed some unheard demos her way from music publishers that hadn't been recorded by another artist. We know she didn't have a publishing set up, and that Linda's albums often contained tunes that had been recorded by hundreds of others before she recorded them. Did her management and/or record companies simply not care enough to solicit previously unheard songs on her behalf? I have to think Capitol would rather have seen an album of all new unheard material than an album of mostly retreaded material, although a good number of Capitol's albums from country artists were mostly a lot of retreads with maybe one or two new songs on them. Even if Linda hadn't written any of the songs, it would've been far better to have had an album of new songs than an album of retreads.

[the Scribe]

Linda may just be sick of the music business and all of its trappings on top of anything else that may keep her away.

Love it's not I
Who didn't try
Hard enough
Hard enough
And this is why
I'm saying goodbye
I've had enough
I've had enough

[Richard W]

The problem with Linda continuing to sing after the lessening of her voice is that Linda is such a melodic singer that any weakening of her legendary vocal strength -- and not just on the big notes -- is made more apparent than it would be of someone of McCartney's vocal style.

McCartney is a fine singer, but he can bolster his weakened vocals with any number of rock props. I'd contend that when people go to a McCartney show they're really going to see a legendary Beatle perform those legendary songs and less for McCartney's vocal itself.

On the other hand, the main joy of a Linda Ronstadt show was the elemental thrill of that gorgeous voice wringing every drop from a song's melody. In Linda's case, it's her voice that is legendary, less so the songs.

[fabtastique]

I think Linda is far too hard on herself. Her voice now is different to that from even 10 years ago (never mind 30 years) but its still 1000 times better than 95% of the "singers" on the charts today .......

I'm surprised that she can't find something that she loves to record that fits her "now" voice and range, or maybe she just simply has had enough. which i find really sad

But now is the time to dig out those old unreleased tunes that are hidden away somewhere - La Boheme taped??? I'd kill to hear or even better see this to start with!

[erik]

Quote by richwar:

The problem with Linda continuing to sing after the lessening of her voice is that Linda is such a melodic singer that any weakening of her legendary vocal strength -- and not just on the big notes -- is made more apparent than it would be of someone of McCartney's vocal style.

I think that's very true. After all, she has been a singer for almost her entire life; she began doing it professionally while in her teens; and her recording career began in the late 1960s. If she feels her voice just isn't what it used to be, then she shouldn't be forced to do it any longer. The will and the love are still there, but to go on using your voice until it goes completely strikes me as vainglorious, and I don't think Linda's ego is of that kind. What would it prove? That she can burn herself out, which maybe she feels she already has? Do we really want that out of her?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather not have that happen. It'd be too painful.

I think maybe we still want Linda around because, as fabtastique says, her voice trumps any of the other hot artists today including Ms. Swift, the Queen Of Insincere Shock And Surprise. But then again, look around at other female artists of today (Sheryl Crow; Tift Merritt; Caitlin Rose, etc.), and you'll still hear a lot of Linda's influence. Linda really isn't going to leave us. She's just going to enjoy the rest of her life, and I think that, along with 45 years worth of albums and concerts, is all that we could wish and ask from her.

[cymru56]

Re. covering lesser-known songs and/or songwriters:

Lets not forget Elvis Costello and Mark Goldenberg - an extremely radical step at the time

[Richard W]

Jun 27, 2012 9:26:17 GMT -5 cymru56 said:

Re. covering lesser-known songs and/or songwriters:

Lets not forget Elvis Costello and Mark Goldenberg - an extremely radical step at the time

Who else was covering Costello songs in 1980? Especially, what female?

I know Dusty Springfield covered a Costello song on her White Heat album and (the fabulously talented but criminally ignored) Marti Jones covered Costello's "Losing You," but those came after Living in the USA and Mad Love.

[MokyWI]

I have a friend in Boston who was a roadie for Neil Young on the tour Linda opened for him right after she finished Don't Cry Now. He hung out with her a little on the tour along with the rest of the musicians, Linda turned Danny (my friend) onto Granola. Danny said Linda was very insecure and her band would get frustrated with her for her lack of confidence. He also said she seemed depressed throughout the tour, and that there were lots of drugs use going on but he didn't think that was the issue with her. My guess is she had a hard time trusting her own abilities early in her career and writing her own material was not something she had enough confidence in, so she put her energy into her singing, relying great songwriters who songs she related to. In the mid 70's when her confidence got better her career was in overdrive and with an album a year and all the touring writing songs would have taken more time than she had to work on it. Writing songs usually is something you are driven to do or your not. She has said before this was not the case with her.

[MokyWI]

Just started reading Dusty Springfield's authorized autobi. Dancing with Demons, good read.

[sliderocker]

Jun 27, 2012 13:18:59 GMT -5 MokyWI said:

I have a friend in Boston who was a roadie for Neil Young on the tour Linda opened for him right after she finished Don't Cry Now. He hung out with her a little on the tour along with the rest of the musicians, Linda turned Danny (my friend) onto Granola. Danny said Linda was very insecure and her band would get frustrated with her for her lack of confidence. He also said she seemed depressed throughout the tour, and that there were lots of drugs use going on but he didn't think that was the issue with her. My guess is she had a hard time trusting her own abilities early in her career and writing her own material was not something she had enough confidence in, so she put her energy into her singing, relying great songwriters who songs she related to. In the mid 70's when her confidence got better her career was in overdrive and with an album a year and all the touring writing songs would have taken more time than she had to work on it. Writing songs usually is something you are driven to do or your not. She has said before this was not the case with her.

I recall Linda mentioning she was very insecure as a performer, but I recall part of the reason for that was she had difficulty working with the male musicians. Some were not inclined to listen to a woman telling them how to play, even when the woman in question was Linda Ronstadt and it was her music they were playing and not theirs.

Another reason for her insecurity could've had something to do with the album sales she had. Record companies always expected artists and bands to have a certain sumber of sales and when the sales weren't there, the companies pressured the artists to get the sales or be dropped from the label. There was also financial pressure in the form of the artist having to pay for the recording session and being required to pay for the return of all unsold copies. Of course, the record companies usually took those monies directly from the artist's royalty money and all the artist chargebacks would have to be paid back before the artist saw the first dime from any of their royalties.

With regard to songwriting and releasing an album a year and touring in the 70s, recording an album back in the early to mid 70s wasn't an all year affair. And with rare exceptions, most artists didn't spend six months (or more) out of the year on the road. Artists always had quite a bit of free time for other activities including songwriting. Personally, I think Linda could've written songs at any time but in the early days, it may have been she needed or wanted help but didn't have anyone to turn to for help.

[erik]

Quotes by sliderocker:

Re. insecurity with male musicians:

I recall Linda mentioning she was very insecure as a performer, but I recall part of the reason for that was she had difficulty working with the male musicians. Some were not inclined to listen to a woman telling them how to play, even when the woman in question was Linda Ronstadt and it was her music they were playing and not theirs.

Well, I don't think there's any question but that a certain amount of sexism was involved; in this area, not much had really changed in the music business after the 1960s social revolution. Linda saw some of that. I think it got better for her musically, however, in 1972 or '73, when she started playing acoustic guitar in rehearsals, and became brave enough to try her hand at it in concerts. She eventually did get their respect, and, in truth, a lot of admiration for her enormous professionalism.


Re. record sales:

Another reason for her insecurity could've had something to do with the album sales she had. Record companies always expected artists and bands to have a certain sumber of sales and when the sales weren't there, the companies pressured the artists to get the sales or be dropped from the label. There was also financial pressure in the form of the artist having to pay for the recording session and being required to pay for the return of all unsold copies. Of course, the record companies usually took those monies directly from the artist's royalty money and all the artist chargebacks would have to be paid back before the artist saw the first dime from any of their royalties.

It definitely took a very long time for Linda to get to that place where she didn't have to worry about having to pay back everything she owed. She was fairly deep in the hole to Capitol in the early 70s because of the fact that her albums weren't selling, and that, of the singles released, only two of them ("Different Drum"; "Long Long Time") had reached the Top 40. As I've said, I'm not sure Capitol really knew what they had in Linda; and Linda herself was perhaps a bit too far ahead of her time with her mix of rock, C&W, and folk.


Re. songwriting:

With regard to songwriting and releasing an album a year and touring in the 70s, recording an album back in the early to mid 70s wasn't an all year affair. And with rare exceptions, most artists didn't spend six months (or more) out of the year on the road. Artists always had quite a bit of free time for other activities including songwriting. Personally, I think Linda could've written songs at any time but in the early days, it may have been she needed or wanted help but didn't have anyone to turn to for help.

I don't think there's any question that Linda would have turned out to be a great songwriter if the confidence had been there, especially when it came to "Try Me Again", which was raw and honest, almost painfully so (IMHO). But while Lennon, McCartney, and Dylan might have made it look like a piece of cake, it's not so easy for others (just ask Glenn Frey and Don Henley about the three-year gap between Hotel California and The Long Run). Linda may have felt far more pressure in this area than most because she came into the business at the dawn of the singer/songwriter movement, and because so many of her peers were part of that movement.

It's a bit dispiriting, in my opinion, to know that one of the biggest criticisms of Linda is this lack of songwriting, which is magnified by the fact that so many of her biggest hits were reworkings of 15-20 year-old R&B, country, and rock and roll songs. I really find this kind of criticism to be churlish at best, and gratuitous at its worst; and I think most of her peers would feel the same way.

[sliderocker]

Well, I don't think there's any question but that a certain amount of sexism was involved; in this area, not much had really changed in the music business after the 1960s social revolution. Linda saw some of that. I think it got better for her musically, however, in 1972 or '73, when she started playing acoustic guitar in rehearsals, and became brave enough to try her hand at it in concerts. She eventually did get their respect, and, in truth, a lot of admiration for her enormous professionalism.

I think what also helped was when she got a group of musicians who stuck around, rather than a bunch of musicians who were here today, gone tomorrow. I think those musicians, especially Andrew and Kenny, believed in her and respected her, and I think she also trusted their opinions. Likewise, I think the Eagles believed in her and had they not gone on to bigger and better things annd stuck around, could have been responsible for her career taking off big time a year or so earlier. I don't know why some of the musicians who were in and out of Linda's bands over the years who had sexist attitudes were there in the first place, unless they thought being in Linda's band was some kind of pathway to their own imminent stardom, which was kind of laughable as far from becoming well known, many of them faded even further back into obscurity.

It definitely took a very long time for Linda to get to that place where she didn't have to worry about having to pay back everything she owed. She was fairly deep in the hole to Capitol in the early 70s because of the fact that her albums weren't selling, and that, of the singles released, only two of them ("Different Drum"; "Long Long Time") had reached the Top 40. As I've said, I'm not sure Capitol really knew what they had in Linda; and Linda herself was perhaps a bit too far ahead of her time with her mix of rock, C&W, and folk.

Capitol may not have known what they had in Linda but I think they had to have known that she needed to have access to more contemporary songs and less of a reliance on older songs, as well as a good producer, good musicians and arrangers. I have to wonder if they tried to get her songs that were newer and she just didn't care for what she was offered?

"Different Drum" and "Long, Long Time" were the hits they were because those songs sparkled. They caught your attention the moment they came on the radio. "Very Lovely Woman" and "Rock Me On The Water" were less successful because although they were good songs, they didn't really catch your attention right away. A better arrangement might have made all the difference in the world. Having newer songs or better arrangements fort he songs that were on the albums might have improved the sales.

I don't think there's any question that Linda would have turned out to be a great songwriter if the confidence had been there, especially when it came to "Try Me Again", which was raw and honest, almost painfully so (IMHO). But while Lennon, McCartney, and Dylan might have made it look like a piece of cake, it's not so easy for others (just ask Glenn Frey and Don Henley about the three-year gap between Hotel California and The Long Run). Linda may have felt far more pressure in this area than most because she came into the business at the dawn of the singer/songwriter movement, and because so many of her peers were part of that movement.

Songwriting is a difficult process for most songwriters, difficult in writing songs with the view of not only that you've got to write something with the potential to be a hit, but that you've got to do it time and time again. You've got to write with the view that you want people to like your music and that what you want your music to say or represent has to come in last in the equation or not at all. I think that the difference between the Beatles and Dylan and other songwriters from the 60s and the Eagles in the 70s was that in the 60s, the Beatles and Dylan didn't have albums that sold ten to fifteen million copies all with one album. "Hotel California" was a huge album. I could imagine any of the Eagles writing songs for the follow up and thinking what they came up with wasn't good enough. I also imagine that was also the time where there was a lot of strain and hard feelings in their personal relationships that in turn would lead to the break up of the band and the vow that they would only get back together when hell froze over.

It's a bit dispiriting, in my opinion, to know that one of the biggest criticisms of Linda is this lack of songwriting, which is magnified by the fact that so many of her biggest hits were reworkings of 15-20 year-old R&B, country, and rock and roll songs. I really find this kind of criticism to be churlish at best, and gratuitous at its worst; and I think most of her peers would feel the same way.

It's a childish criticism, especially coming from critics who couldn't write a song themselves to save their lives. It's childish because many of the same big names the critics revere for their songwriting, often had non-original compositions on their albums. And just because some bands did write some or all of their songs didn't mean everyone of those albums were great albums. Some were pretentious to the point that you had to wonder what the critics saw in the band or artist in the first place that made them so worthy of the lavish praise and attention heaped on them. To be blunt, critics often praised music from certain songwriters that was garbage and sh*t as being worthy of your time. Ironically, when a non-songwriting singer did have access to orioginal songs from outside songwriters, many of those songwriters were dismissed as hacks for their efforts. It was as if the nonwriting performer could ever win with the critics.