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Post by Richard W on Jun 28, 2012 8:20:18 GMT -5
The only thing singers are required to do is sing.
Just like the only thing actors are required to do is act. They're not expected to write their own parts.
Writing is a different horse from performing.
You can be the world's best songwriter but a lousy singer, in which case you need someone with the gift of singing to bring your song to life. Conversely, you can be the world's best singer but a lousy songwriter, in which case you need someone to write good songs for you to sing. Otherwise, what are your options as a singer, sing the lousy songs you wrote yourself* or sit there silent with your thumb up your arse, never singing a note?
*Not valid in Linda's case
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Post by erik on Jun 28, 2012 9:12:07 GMT -5
Quote by richwar:
All true. I'm not, however, begrudging those who write and sing their own great material. I do think it is dumb for the rock press, especially Rolling Stone (and they are the most egregious offenders), to put such an emphasis on artists writing their own material that anybody who covers this stuff is automatically a leech, or unworthy of any attention, in their eyes. That kind of half-a**ed elitism and (in Linda's case) male chauvinism has really poisoned all of American popular music (IMHO).
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Post by sliderocker on Jun 28, 2012 12:59:27 GMT -5
It's dumb because a lot of the early rock icons did not write all of their own songs. In the pre-Beatle era, the early rock icons either wrote some of their own songs or none of their songs. None really wrote all of their own songs but the weird irony is that the rock press would sometimes criticize a performer as a hack performer for not writing any of their own songs when in fact, they did write some of their songs.
That was the case with Johnny Rivers, who is mostly known for the hits he had that were covers. You never hear or read in the rock press that Rivers cowrote "Poor Side of Town" or that his albums featured songs he did write. You also never hear or read that of some of the hits Rivers had were songs like "Summer Rain" or "Look to Your Soul," neither of which he wrote but had the publishing on. You also never hear he gave songwriter Jimmy Webb his first break in the music business. But, to hear some of the critics, all Rivers ever did was raid the Motown publishing for his hits and he was therefore, unworthy of anyone's time.
Strange as it may seem to say, while for Rolling Stone, writing one's own songs may have added to the artist's credibility, I know there were people who never read the first songwriting credit and who assumed the artist or band performing the song wrote the song. I think the emphasis on the songwriting artist was more prevalent in the mid-to-late 60s and throughout much of the 70s, but here again, those who made such a big deal about it yet who never read any of the writing credits, wherever they happened to be -- whether it was on the back cover, the inner sleeve, the actual label. The artist was the songwriter.
I think Linda has taken a lot of heat, not for necessarily not writing her own songs but for the many covers of songs she had hits on. But, I wonder if it would've mattered two bits to the critics if she had written many of her own songs or had found original, unheard songs from outside sources and turned them into hits? Or would they have found something else to complain about that Linda didn't do on her recordings?
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Post by erik on Jun 28, 2012 13:26:04 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
I don't think we'll know for sure, because critics are often more narcissistic than the artists they critique. And more often than not, they have tin ears to boot. To lavish so much attention on Taylor Swift, whose songwriting is still stuck at 15 (even though she's 22), and whose voice, Autotuned or otherwise, is the most irritating and monotonic one out there, while still largely giving Linda short shrift is beyond ludicrous (IMHO).
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Post by sliderocker on Jun 29, 2012 10:50:49 GMT -5
I don't think we'll know for sure, because critics are often more narcissistic than the artists they critique. And more often than not, they have tin ears to boot. To lavish so much attention on Taylor Swift, whose songwriting is still stuck at 15 (even though she's 22), and whose voice, Autotuned or otherwise, is the most irritating and monotonic one out there, while still largely giving Linda short shrift is beyond ludicrous (IMHO). I think the majority of critics think it's their job to be mean and nasty, to praise the mediocre while putting down those who excel, and who think they are the ones who make or break an artist. With Taylor Swift, I think the reason they like her so much is that she basically started out at a very early age. They want to be in on the ground floor so that if she has staying power, if she sticks around, they can boast of having spotted a major talent way back when. Of course, if her popularity starts to waiver and go down, the critics being the rats they are, will quickly abandon her. I don't blame Taylor for the critics not giving Linda the credit she's due as a major musical force because the critics could ignore Taylor altogether and still not give any respect to Linda. I blame the critics for their lack of respect and the ignoring of her musical contributions. Taylor's songwriting may still be stuck at 15 but that may not always be so and she may mature as a songwriter to where her lyrics match her age. Where her popularity will be when this happens is anyone's guess but I'd never bank on the critics being in her corner every step of the way, being the fair weather rats they are.
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Post by erik on Jun 29, 2012 14:01:36 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
Obviously the critics are the culprits in this deck, far more so than Taylor, who after all is only doing what she's doing because she is good at it. The growing-up phase, however, is where it'll all come together, hopefully.
I have felt that the whole problem critics have always had with Linda is an inability to think outside of a narrow range of artistic endeavors. It really never occurs to them (at least I don't think so) that even hardened rock and roll artists and groups might other musical interests outside of rock that actually enhance that form. It almost feels like they consider artistic diversity parasitic, if not downright evil, forgetting that rock and roll never would have evolved if artists hadn't gone both backward and forward in time and added things.
In Linda's case, I think her Great American Songbook excursions reconnect the pre-rock standards period to much of her Adult Contemporary material; and with the albums of Mexican mariachi/ranchera music, she is accentuating the connection between that form, and the honky-tonk style of American country music that she heard as a child growing up in Arizona. But the critics, at least as far as Linda goes, either don't understand that, or if they do, they don't seem to appreciate it. I have to confess it took me a very long time to appreciate her albums of standards and rancheras, and then I realized, perhaps subliminally, that she was trying to reconnect the past and the present, a connection that I think the birth of the rock music critics in the 1960s had basically chopped off in favor of "hipness."
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Post by djay on Jun 29, 2012 17:04:24 GMT -5
I'd like to know what happened to the Verve projects...The announced several years ago an agreement for two or three recordings and, to the best of my knowledge only one has materialized (Hummin' To Myself). I understand that the follow up to Adieu False Heart and some of these other things may have been optomistic small talk, but Verve did say they had a multi-project agreement.
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Post by MokyWI on Jun 29, 2012 17:22:06 GMT -5
I am a huge fan of Raitt and Nicks, but I have to be honest at this point a release that was not the norm for them would be welcomed in my opinion. I love Slipstream and the Joe Henry produced tracks are the ones that interest me the most from it. The production style is a bit different for Raitt. She said they recorded enough stuff for a whole album but she put only half of those on Slipstream. I would have liked to have seen a complete album he produced. At this point, she needs to try something different. Linda Ronstadt wouldn't be LINDA RONSTADT without her adventure exploring like she has. it's just as much a part of her story as being part of the rise of country/rock and her Asher successes. Her exploring is what has kept me all these years.
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Post by MokyWI on Jun 29, 2012 17:28:56 GMT -5
Wasn't Verve and the label Adieu released on two different labels owned by the same company? I thought someone in the know on here posted that years ago. I know people were wondering what happened to the "Sam Bush" release she spoke of, which is Adieu False Heart in reality.
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Post by erik on Jun 29, 2012 17:44:29 GMT -5
I don't think any of us have any clear idea as to why Linda didn't go any further with recording for Verve in the small-ensemble jazz setting, or doing traditionalist folk/roots/Americana for Vanguard, other than maybe over time she got so involved in other stuff.
Inevitably, however, we have to come back to her feeling that at some point she was starting the lose that power in her voice. The desire and the want may still be there, but the ability may not necessarily be.
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Post by djay on Jun 30, 2012 6:27:44 GMT -5
For me, personally, her last recording that I know of, All I Know w/ Jimmy Webb (2010), was absolutely extraordinary. It actually reminded me of the raw soul she captured so naturally on Don't Cry Now--before she became a technician. Not that I mind her her passion for detail, but the voice I heard on that track (All I Know) was priceless: clean, weighty, soulful and soooo evocative.
That's the voice we need to her more of, but I don't think we will.
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Post by Partridge on Jun 30, 2012 10:10:57 GMT -5
I don't think any of us have any clear idea as to why Linda didn't go any further with recording for Verve in the small-ensemble jazz setting... My opinion is that the sales figures were disappointing, not only to Linda but to the record company. Even though it entered the chart at #2 (jazz chart), it never got to that top notch, and I don't think it was profitable. The folks that were enthralled with and gobbling up the Rod Stewart albums did not go for this album.
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Post by erik on Jun 30, 2012 11:12:29 GMT -5
Quote by Partridge re. commercial fate of Hummin' To Myself: Well, as the old saying goes, there's no accounting for taste.
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Post by Mr. Kaplansky on Jul 24, 2021 8:50:22 GMT -5
If Linda was still singing I wonder what she would record. I wouldnt be surprised if she recorded an album of many cultures: Australian Aborigines, Icelandic Eskimo's. It would be fun to hear an album of 1 song each from many cultures. But I would want the songs rewritten to be sung in english. I was so disappointed when her first mexican album was released that it wasnt sung in english. I also definitely would have liked a tribute album to Laura Nyro, Melanie, Carole King, Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell, Doris Day. And I would also have liked an album of songs with a different producer for each song: Quincy Jones, Wes Farrell, Barry Beckett, Nile Rodgers, Billy Sherill, Tom Catalano, Lenny Waronker, Chuck Plotkin, Arif Mardin, Gary Katz, Snuff Garrett. I remember discussion about a computer program that can take the phrases of and copy the voice of a singer and choose any song for them to sing. Also, I would have loved an album of songs with a Trio I liked better than with Dolly and Emmylou - Linda with Maria Muldaur and Wendy Waldman. To hear what they sound like, check out the song: "Sweet Harmony" by Maria Muldaur. And a duets album of a song with Maria Muldaur, Anne Murray, Helen Reddy,Barbra Streisand,Judy Collins, Rita Coolidge, Carly Simon, Paul Simon, George Michael, David Cassidy, Donny Osmond, Barry Manilow. What's left?! An album of scary songs? Polka? Did I miss anything?! Where can we get our hands on this computer software!
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Post by Mr. Kaplansky on Jul 24, 2021 8:51:41 GMT -5
If Linda was still singing I wonder what she would record. I wouldnt be surprised if she recorded an album of many cultures: Australian Aborigines, Icelandic Eskimo's. It would be fun to hear an album of 1 song each from many cultures. But I would want the songs rewritten to be sung in english. I was so disappointed when her first mexican album was released that it wasnt sung in english. I also definitely would have liked a tribute album to Laura Nyro, Melanie, Carole King, Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell, Doris Day. And I would also have liked an album of songs with a different producer for each song: Quincy Jones, Wes Farrell, Barry Beckett, Nile Rodgers, Billy Sherill, Tom Catalano, Lenny Waronker, Chuck Plotkin, Arif Mardin, Gary Katz, Snuff Garrett. I remember discussion about a computer program that can take the phrases of and copy the voice of a singer and choose any song for them to sing. Also, I would have loved an album of songs with a Trio I liked better than with Dolly and Emmylou - Linda with Maria Muldaur and Wendy Waldman. To hear what they sound like, check out the song: "Sweet Harmony" by Maria Muldaur. And a duets album of a song with Maria Muldaur, Anne Murray, Helen Reddy,Barbra Streisand,Judy Collins, Rita Coolidge, Carly Simon, Paul Simon, George Michael, David Cassidy, Donny Osmond, Barry Manilow. What's left?! An album of scary songs? Polka? Did I miss anything?! Where can we get our hands on this computer software!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 9:37:16 GMT -5
Eagles songs! "Take It To The Limit", "Hotel California" etc
Duets with John Denver would have been great, especially as his best period paralleled Linda's.
A full Patsy Cline tribute album though is what would have been really cool.
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Post by erik on Jul 24, 2021 17:31:46 GMT -5
Another significant lost opportunity was that Linda never got to sing with her spiritual protégé Trisha Yearwood. What those two could have done, given both of their track records and Trisha's insatiable appreciation of Linda's gifts, would boggle the mind (IMHO).
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Post by RobGNYC on Jul 24, 2021 18:19:42 GMT -5
This may have come up earlier but at least once, Linda mentioned an all-Karla Bonoff album. Closest she came after Hasten Down the Wind (three tracks) was Cry Like a Rainstorm (also three tracks).
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Post by MokyWI on Jul 24, 2021 18:35:38 GMT -5
This may have come up earlier but at least once, Linda mentioned an all-Karla Bonoff album. Closest she came after Hasten Down the Wind (three tracks) was Cry Like a Rainstorm (also three tracks). And don’t forget “Falling Star” from the boxed set
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Post by MokyWI on Jul 24, 2021 18:36:55 GMT -5
Another significant lost opportunity was that Linda never got to sing with her spiritual protégé Trisha Yearwood. What those two could have done, given both of their track records and Trisha's insatiable appreciation of Linda's gifts, would boggle the mind (IMHO). I wanted to see Linda produce an album for Trisha Yearwood and Linda do some harmony/backup vocals.
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Post by RobGNYC on Jul 24, 2021 20:20:23 GMT -5
The TIME cover story (February 28, 1977) dropped a few tantalizing prospects:
"Next week she will begin recording an all-country album. She's interested in Third World music. Bulgarian ballads. Reggae."
Appears that the "all-country album" evolved into Simple Dreams. I'd love to know more about the original concept. Reggae seems to have stalled after "Give One Heart." Not sure what became of Third World music or Bulgarian ballads.
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Post by MokyWI on Jul 24, 2021 20:52:49 GMT -5
The TIME cover story (February 28, 1977) dropped a few tantalizing prospects: "Next week she will begin recording an all-country album. She's interested in Third World music. Bulgarian ballads. Reggae." Appears that the "all-country album" evolved into Simple Dreams. I'd love to know more about the original concept. Reggae seems to have stalled after "Give One Heart." Not sure what became of Third World music or Bulgarian ballads. Or maybe the all country album was the album she was planning on making with Emmylou and Dolly that they shelved back in 78’.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 6:02:48 GMT -5
This may have come up earlier but at least once, Linda mentioned an all-Karla Bonoff album. Closest she came after Hasten Down the Wind (three tracks) was Cry Like a Rainstorm (also three tracks). And don’t forget “Falling Star” from the boxed set I bought Box Set for that song, but lots of goodies in the set.
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Post by MokyWI on Jul 27, 2021 17:55:27 GMT -5
I wore my Boxed Set out. I still have the CD’s but they skip in places and the box and book are long gone. Someone spilled their red wine on it while it laid open on the coffee table. Luckily the CD’s were in the player. I’ve looked for another, but out of print and the ones on eBay and Amazon used are EXPENSIVE!
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jul 27, 2021 18:30:09 GMT -5
Hey Moky: Maybe check out some thrift shops yard sales etc. I got so many copies of cd's and albums that way. I do probably have more than one box set and I don't want to say I can find it at this second lol!!!! I got one I know for $4 as they were a dollar a cd in this one store. I am like you, Moky, the cds could be in players or in other cd cases ( I hate when that happens, lol). All have a good night!!! eddiejinnj
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Post by RobGNYC on Jul 27, 2021 18:53:11 GMT -5
I wore my Boxed Set out. I still have the CD’s but they skip in places and the box and book are long gone. Someone spilled their red wine on it while it laid open on the coffee table. Luckily the CD’s were in the player. I’ve looked for another, but out of print and the ones on eBay and Amazon used are EXPENSIVE! There are copies on Discogs starting at $30. www.discogs.com/sell/list?sort=price%2Casc&limit=25&master_id=1019832&ev=mb
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 27, 2021 23:05:38 GMT -5
If Linda was still singing I wonder what she would record. I wouldnt be surprised if she recorded an album of many cultures: Australian Aborigines, Icelandic Eskimo's. It would be fun to hear an album of 1 song each from many cultures.
Don't go near the Eskimos. Wasn't that Ben Colder or Sheb Wooley? I got my doubts she would've recorded an album of tunes by the Australian aborigines or the Icelandic Eskimos. All her love for culture seemed to be reserved for the Mexican culture. Would she have done an album of German tunes, given part of her ancestry is German? And again, as I have said, she has more European blood than Mexican blood yet she eschewed her total ancestry and culture in favor of the one ancestry and culture she grew up in. She almost reminds me of my late sister. (We were said to have the blood of three Indian tribes in our mix, but when I did the ancestry, no Indian ancestry showed up. Someone told me had to pay extra to have determined if there was Indian blood. And I'm like what???)
But I would want the songs rewritten to be sung in english. I was so disappointed when her first mexican album was released that it wasnt sung in english.
Linda should've thought of her audience and that some might not like an entire album sung in a language they didn't understand. But, I suppose Spanish-speaking people felt that way about albums in English. Still, there's no reason why Linda couldn't have done the Shania Twain thing and recorded English-editions of her Spanish albums. She might have sold a lot more albums than she did, especially given the other two Spanish-sung albums were not big sellers for Linda.
I also definitely would have liked a tribute album to Laura Nyro, Melanie, Carole King, Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell, Doris Day.
Laura Nyro and Carole King I could see. I'm a fan of Melanie but I don't know if Linda could've wrapped herself around some Melanie tunes to record. Joni Mitchell, she hung around with Joni but seems odd she never covered one of Joni's songs that I can recall. Carly Simon, wasn't there some animosity between them, over James Taylor for one and resentment of Linda scoring big with the standards while Simon, who did it first, failed to catch the interest of the audience? Doris Day? Interesting but Doris was known for the standards, and I think Linda largely bailed on the standards when the sales started to decline. Still, I would love to have heard Linda sing Doris's biggest hit, Que Sera Sera.
And I would also have liked an album of songs with a different producer for each song: Quincy Jones, Wes Farrell, Barry Beckett, Nile Rodgers, Billy Sherill, Tom Catalano, Lenny Waronker, Chuck Plotkin, Arif Mardin, Gary Katz, Snuff Garrett.
Worked for the Bee Gees. 1997's Still Waters, which also marked the return of those pesky falsettos.
I remember discussion about a computer program that can take the phrases of and copy the voice of a singer and choose any song for them to sing.
Country singer-songwriter-musician Anita Cochran sampled Conway Twitty's vocals for her song I Wanna Hear a Cheatin' Song. Conway was long dead when Cochran sampled his vocals to add to her song. That's been a few years. I have mixed feelings about that, in that although I think it would be fascinating, having deceased artists sing on songs that came out after they died, on the other hand, it could lead to confusion in the minds of some (if not many) in thinking the performer is still living. There's already enough Elvis fanatics who think he's alive and some 60-ish year old preacher down in Arkansas who can sing like him. Despite that preacher's denial and despite the fact Elvis would be 86 if he were still alive. I think we are heading for the day where that will one day be a reality - and justas much a reality we may one day have movies starring actors and actresses who died long ago but appearing in newly produced movies. Is this truly what we want?
Also, I would have loved an album of songs with a Trio I liked better than with Dolly and Emmylou - Linda with Maria Muldaur and Wendy Waldman. To hear what they sound like, check out the song: "Sweet Harmony" by Maria Muldaur.
Liked this idea but...
And a duets album of a song with Maria Muldaur, Anne Murray, Helen Reddy,Barbra Streisand,Judy Collins, Rita Coolidge, Carly Simon, Paul Simon, George Michael, David Cassidy, Donny Osmond, Barry Manilow.
The thing I think here is that Linda might not have liked all of the artists you named or they might not have liked Linda. Paul Simon, we know worked with Linda. Anne Murray and Helen Reddy, label mates on Capitol but who knows if they got along when they were all on the same label or if there was some heretofore unknown jealousy between the three.
All were essentially cover artists with the occasional new tune but what if Anne recorded a song Linda wanted to do? Or if Linda had some resentment towards Helen because she said yes to I Don't Know How to Love Him and had a big hit with it. Helen didn't like the song either but she saw the hit potential. Sort of like Dionne Warwicke got first dibs on What the World Needs Now but she passed on the song because she hated it. Burt Bacharach and Hal David took it to Jackie DeShannon, who had the biggest hit of her career up to that time. Judy and Rita, two more interesting choices. Carly, discussed before.
George Michael, like Helen Reddy and David Cassidy, deceased and have fun working with their estates on getting their vocals and getting permission from Linda on her vocals being electronically recreated. Donny Osmond and Barry Manilow??? Spits out soda when reading that. Even Cassidy was a bit of a stretch.
What's left?! An album of scary songs? Polka? Did I miss anything?! Where can we get our hands on this computer software!
One song I would like to correct is Linda sang a duet with Homer Simpson, Funny How Time Slips Away. Elvis did that song on his Elvis Country album and years ago, when Priscilla dreamt up the horrible Christmas Duets album on Elvis, wherein different female artists added their vocals to Elvis's Christmas songs, Linda was MIA on that album. Not that she missed anything. Olivia Newton-John added her vocals to O Come All Ye Faithful but it didn't work. Neither did Martina McBride and they really got insulting having her imposed on the 69 sit down portion of his TV special. McBride wouldn't have been able to have done that as she is the same age as Elvis's daughter.
But, I would erase the Homer vocal onFunny How Time Slips Away and replace it with Elvis's vocal. I would also add Linda's vocal from the part of the Neil Diamond Medley she did, And The Grass Won't Pay No Mind. As I've always said, Linda and Elvis were musically kindred souls. They were more alike than not alike, despite the fact Linda thinks Elvis never grew as an artist. If he didn't, then neither did she.
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Post by MokyWI on Jul 27, 2021 23:21:20 GMT -5
I wore my Boxed Set out. I still have the CD’s but they skip in places and the box and book are long gone. Someone spilled their red wine on it while it laid open on the coffee table. Luckily the CD’s were in the player. I’ve looked for another, but out of print and the ones on eBay and Amazon used are EXPENSIVE! There are copies on Discogs starting at $30. www.discogs.com/sell/list?sort=price%2Casc&limit=25&master_id=1019832&ev=mbThanks, will check them out. I know I will get my hands on another in good condition one day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 6:09:04 GMT -5
The first Box Set I bought, CDs were OK but the innards were unstuck. I bought a nicer one later, so have an archive & a working set. Definitely worth it for the Rarities disc alone.
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