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Post by sliderocker on Jan 23, 2020 13:47:24 GMT -5
I too am confused with some of her comments. She says she is atheist but yet she says Aaron Neville sings like an arch angel from heaven. There are pictures of her wearing a cross necklace. she has friends over to visit her at Christmas so she must celebrate Christmas and had done Christmas albums and shows. And in a recent photo at her house she is sitting below a picture of the Our Lady of Guadalupe. She has said she used to pray to a Haitian God about Barack Obama. Maybe she goes back and forth about her beliefs. Anyway I wish her well. I don't believe Linda is an atheist, despite what she has publicly said otherwise that might indicate she is. What I believe about Linda is that she is spiritual and I believe she keeps her spiritual beliefs to herself most of the time. She has sometimes alluded to a religious belief. After she was diagnosed with Parkinson's (now progressive supranuclear palsy), there was an interview in the USA Today where she spoke about being in heaven, being welcomed and praised or congratulated on a job well done. An atheist wouldn't say something like that as they don't believe in God or in heaven. I also think it possible she may have returned to her Catholic faith, but again, keeps her personal beliefs private, as that would be in keeping with who she is. Public statements don't necessarily reflect what a person thinks privately.
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Post by erik on Jan 23, 2020 19:39:31 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
Far be it for anyone of us to know how Linda thinks of things like angels and heaven or God (and it's true that public statements and private thoughts aren't necessarily the same thing), I have always felt that one doesn't have to subscribe to any particular religious domination, let alone outright religious dogma (like the Falwells and Robertsons of the world seem to believe you must), in order to believe in these things. If it's her Catholic faith motivating her in some spiritual way, so much the better for her. In the end (and here I am using a clichéd saying from IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE), she is a Desert Angel who has long since earned her wings.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 15:59:45 GMT -5
In the VF interview, Linda said JDS took her to a restaurant that his friend Christopher Hitchens liked. Hitchens was a public & controversial atheist, almost an anti-Christ, so if Hitchens influenced or echoed those close to Linda, his effect might have reinforced her own stance.
Unfortunately Linda has been used by FFR & other atheist/anti-religion bodies as an unofficial token of their movements.
If, as she said, she became an atheist in 3rd grade, that then is childhood rebellion. Being force fed Catholicism by nuns, school severity, being told a woman's place, and maybe domestic pressures in her community, moulded her rebelliousness and attitude.
The above could also help explain Linda's determination to break free and her many affairs, all the opposite of the home maker/mother/supportive submissive wife she was expected to become.
The Ronstadts are a gifted, intelligent, resourceful family. Linda from that gene pool, would not be tied down, she had to do her own thing. Unfortunately for her, that involved rejecting Christian religion, as it was part of her rebellion and not part of her independence. As for everyone, she will be judged come the time.....
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Post by Partridge on May 3, 2021 21:16:18 GMT -5
As for everyone, she will be judged come the time..... I have already judged her to be A-OK.
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Post by Holly on May 4, 2021 2:53:59 GMT -5
As for everyone, she will be judged come the time..... I have already judged her to be A-OK. Judgement is for the deeds we do, not for our beliefs. I'd say Linda has nothing to be concerned about but she already knows that.
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Post by eddiejinnj on May 4, 2021 7:58:53 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, Holly. It is easy to join. Maybe, if you feel comfortable, you can tell us how you became a Linda fan? eddiejinnj
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Post by erik on May 4, 2021 8:46:02 GMT -5
It has occurred to me that the things Linda has said about certain aspects of her Catholic upbringing as of late, setting aside the horror she went through in Catholic school, tell me that she is not quite as much of an atheist as she has let on in the past. It's just that the way she approaches it is probably quite complex to us, and much more to Linda herself. Some of it could be traced back to a certain kind of paganism that she has often talked about, especially in relation to Christmas; and it may be related to her Mexican lineage.
She did say in her memoir that what she witnessed in Catholic school contributed to her not believing in any thesis that couldn't be proven with empirical scientific data. I don't think that is atheism in and of itself. To me, it seems like it is a more fact-based way of understanding of how God works, free from religious dogma. But to hear those on the evangelical Religious Right, you would think that it was atheism or even outright anti-Christian. This is likely what provoked Linda to say what she said in 2004 about not wanting to know whether there were any Holy Rollers in the audience whenever she did her concerts. More than a few of those on the Religious Right take extreme umbrage at any attacks on their beliefs without ever examining the real reasons for the disdain for Christianity in general among a sizeable portion of the American populace. Maybe Linda could have stated it in a more compassionate way than she did, but I don't think it would have made that much of a difference. After all, she doesn't have a "filter", and has always been a straight shooter.
In short, it is what it is (IMHO).
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 10:44:52 GMT -5
I myself am an ecumenical, non-denominational, philosophical Christian, though go to an Anglican church with my Bible study friends. I became a Linda fan from her "A Merry Christmas" album, the most beautiful one I have heard, along with Celtic Woman, Keith & Kristin Getty, and the Carpenters. All bring a homeliness and holyness to Christmas.
Anyway, as for everyone, I pray for Linda and that her remaining time is filled with love, not suffering. I hope she finds Jesus. Amen.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 11:24:56 GMT -5
"Other people's sex lives and other people's God are none of your business". Jesus ain't no different than Buddah, Ganesh, David and Goliath and Santa Claus. Just moral, organizational stories. Stop telling others which fairy to believe in. Nobody told anybody what to believe in.
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Post by Holly on May 4, 2021 12:04:53 GMT -5
If Jesus is lost I am sure someone will find him before Linda.
More and more people these days wear religious ornaments and practice religious holidays as tradition rather than out of belief. In the same way those religions adopted, assimilated and claimed the pagan traditions into their own organization during their origins period. One's transition out of this life is as easy as going from one room to another. Still the same person but in a different location. No beliefs required. It's not a good idea or healthy to project our own hopes and needs onto another no matter how well meant. And it really isn't necessary in the order of things. We all love Linda. She will be just fine with all our "well wishes" as the wind beneath her wings.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 13:12:47 GMT -5
Linda is a humanist/humanitarian definitely. I hope a museum, such as the Everley Brothers, Glen Campbell, Elvis Presley etc have may be established and filled with genuine Linda treasures reflecting her life and career. Rather see that than the usual stuff.
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Post by eddiejinnj on May 4, 2021 14:30:01 GMT -5
We "hope" Linda does fine with our well wishes. We can hope that a sick child gets well. What one hopes isn't necessarily what another adopts. I can hope that say a family member recovers from addiction. You can hope but if the person doesn't want to etc etc. What one hopes for another person is a personal thing as well and of course may or may not be adopted by the person you have hopes for. eddiejinnj
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Post by rick on May 5, 2021 2:43:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately, a very wise post was removed by a "Guest." Linda has talked about God being akin to a Santa Claus in the sky. There was a reason that politics were banned from the Linda Ronstadt Forum. I think we only allow politics now when we are discussing Linda's beliefs on the topic. We know what Linda's beliefs are.
I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school from grades 1 through 12. When I saw Linda speak with Patt Morrison in Santa Monica (event recorded for public television stations), Linda talked about how cruel the nuns were. That was her experience.
A lot of hateful things have been done in this world by so-called "religious" people. heartbreaker, I do not know if you are gay or straight or what, but if you were gay, and (by the way I am gay) if I were to say, "I hope that you get cured of your dreaded homosexuality," that would be pretty F'd up. I think it is as equally messed up for you to act holier-than-thou as if you know what is best for Linda Ronstadt.
In the United States at least, it's the non-denominational Christians who are wearing polo shirts and holding up Tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us." They are the ones who claim to be so pious but they vote for the orange clown who said you grab women by the "p***y." Or that we don't want people from s**thole countries. Those hypocritical Christians are the ones who voted for that bastard. They wanted him because he put Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett on the Supreme Court.
You don't know jack about what is right for Linda Ronstadt.
As "Guest" stated: "Other people's sex lives and other people's God are none of your business." You believe what you wish to believe. Don't go trying to wish your beliefs on other people. If you can do it, I will do it, too, then. I hope your eyes opened and you start to think with a critical mind instead of believing in magic fairy dust.
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Post by eddiejinnj on May 5, 2021 6:26:54 GMT -5
Way over the top man (Rick). "If you can do it, I can also" is elementary school and you go for the jugular. I used to be a master's level mental health professional and have a lot of training in objectivity. I am gay, too. Just chill. People really need to get over themselves. Life is too short. eddiejinnj
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Post by germancanadian on May 5, 2021 9:41:04 GMT -5
I agree with Rick. It would be nice to be able to discuss politics and religion here, but it doesn't work in practice because hateful people will end up overwhelming the whole forum. I saw it happen on Moviechat.org and that's why I avoid political forums on Reddit. It's best to stick with Linda's music.
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Post by eddiejinnj on May 5, 2021 13:01:45 GMT -5
Well this is a thread on Linda and Religion, not on politics. There has been much discussion above re: opinions whether Linda still connected to the Catholic Church at heart. My opinion is such that I do agree that what Linda experienced early on in Catholic school influenced her. Her childhood upbringing in spirituality from that standpoint got compromised. Her childhood memories of music formed the basis for her catalog. One wonders what her thoughts/beliefs would be if that didn't happen to her. Though, stating she is atheist, members have postulated whether she is or not. That doesn't make them bad people for questioning whether Linda is or not. Maybe one should read through the whole thread. Peace to all!!!! eddiejinnj
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 15:21:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately, a very wise post was removed by a "Guest." Linda has talked about God being akin to a Santa Claus in the sky. There was a reason that politics were banned from the Linda Ronstadt Forum. I think we only allow politics now when we are discussing Linda's beliefs on the topic. We know what Linda's beliefs are. I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school from grades 1 through 12. When I saw Linda speak with Patt Morrison in Santa Monica (event recorded for public television stations), Linda talked about how cruel the nuns were. That was her experience. A lot of hateful things have been done in this world by so-called "religious" people. heartbreaker, I do not know if you are gay or straight or what, but if you were gay, and (by the way I am gay) if I were to say, "I hope that you get cured of your dreaded homosexuality," that would be pretty F'd up. I think it is as equally messed up for you to act holier-than-thou as if you know what is best for Linda Ronstadt. In the United States at least, it's the non-denominational Christians who are wearing polo shirts and holding up Tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us." They are the ones who claim to be so pious but they vote for the orange clown who said you grab women by the "p***y." Or that we don't want people from s**(thole countries. Those hypocritical Christians are the ones who voted for that bastard. They wanted him because he put Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett on the Supreme Court. You don't know jack about what is right for Linda Ronstadt. As "Guest" stated: "Other people's sex lives and other people's God are none of your business." You believe what you wish to believe. Don't go trying to wish your beliefs on other people. If you can do it, I will do it, too, then. I hope your eyes opened and you start to think with a critical mind instead of believing in magic fairy dust. That post was pure trolling, and its good it was removed. The "guest" came in to just post his/her message, and it was purely abrasive and deliberately inflammatory. The Judaeo-Christian God is definitely not a "Santa Claus" God. Reading the Bible makes that obvious quickly. Mankind twists everything, misinterprets everything, destroys and ruins most things.
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Post by rick on May 5, 2021 15:26:24 GMT -5
In the interest of fair comment, I am reposting the original post that at least a couple Administrators believe should not have been deleted. If heartbreaker is allowed a say, then so is this guest --
REPOST --
"Other people's sex lives and other people's God are none of your business". Jesus ain't no different than Buddah, Ganesh, David and Goliath and Santa Claus. Just moral, organizational stories. Stop telling others which fairy to believe in. "
heartbreaker, you have your beliefs. Other people have theirs. So be it.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 16:35:48 GMT -5
In the interest of fair comment, I am reposting the original post that at least a couple Administrators believe should not have been deleted. If heartbreaker is allowed a say, then so is this guest -- REPOST -- "Other people's sex lives and other people's God are none of your business". Jesus ain't no different than Buddah, Ganesh, David and Goliath and Santa Claus. Just moral, organizational stories. Stop telling others which fairy to believe in. " heartbreaker, you have your beliefs. Other people have theirs. So be it. Jesus IS different. I repeat, I did NOT TELL anyone TO DO anything.
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Post by sliderocker on May 6, 2021 0:59:00 GMT -5
It has occurred to me that the things Linda has said about certain aspects of her Catholic upbringing as of late, setting aside the horror she went through in Catholic school, tell me that she is not quite as much of an atheist as she has let on in the past.
Part of my belief about Linda still being Catholic revolves around the issue of was she born Linda Maria (or Linda Marie) or Maria Linda that we have debated here at great lengths in the forum's recent past. I don't know if Linda legally changed her name to Maria Linda to conform with the Catholic tradition on giving the child's first name after a Catholic saint, but if she did and is no longer Catholic, why bother doing that?
And was it really honoring Catholic tradition or did it have more to do with Linda's Mexican ancestry? Does anyone know what Linda's older sister Gretchen's middle name was or her first name, if Linda's family was observing the practice of giving the name of a Catholic saint as the first name of their children? Linda didn't need to go through changing her first and middle names if she wanted to honor her Mexican heritage. And the only way it would make sense in reference to Catholicism is if Linda is still a practicing Catholic in some way. Or maybe a relapsed Catholic covering her bases.
It's just that the way she approaches it is probably quite complex to us, and much more to Linda herself. Some of it could be traced back to a certain kind of paganism that she has often talked about, especially in relation to Christmas; and it may be related to her Mexican lineage.
It could also be incredible simple and we are overthinking the issue. It could be Linda guards her spirituality like she guards the rest of her life: very privately and zealously so.
With regard to her Mexican lineage, in reality, she doesn't have that much Mexican blood line in her. Her father's Mexican blood line was either 5/8ths or 5/16ths. Trying to calculate just how much Mexican she was based on the ancestry of her parents, Linda is more English and German than she is Mexican. I don't remember if it was on here or on Facebook, but someone had a link to a site which discussed the ancestry of Linda and her family.
I was discussing the issue on a Facebook fan page for Linda and some took umbrage at me for saying Linda was more English and German than Mexican. And most of their basic argument was "Well, it's what Linda thinks of herself as. And then there was the culture and traditions she absorbed." I replied to those fans I was not denying Linda's family history included Mexican ancestry,just that her ancestry was more European than Mexican. And my point was if she embraces Mexican heritage, that's her right but it doesn't change her overall ancestry. And culture and traditions does not a bloodline make!
She did say in her memoir that what she witnessed in Catholic school contributed to her not believing in any thesis that couldn't be proven with empirical scientific data. I don't think that is atheism in and of itself. To me, it seems like it is a more fact-based way of understanding of how God works, free from religious dogma.
There are a couple of questions I would liked to have asked Linda, if I'd ever had the chance. The first of these would've been did she blame the church for the sins of her Catholic schooling and the nuns' treatment of the students? I knew kids who attended Catholic schools and they all pretty much had the same horror tales. Most still remained in the Catholic church though, and took their schooling as being separate from that of the church.
The second question would've touched more on those horrors Linda saw in the Catholic school, such as did she experience any of the horrors first hand? Linda, I believe mentioned hands getting slapped with a ruler and having to drop to their knees, their knees connecting with a lined up group of pencils. Linda didn't mention if she experienced that or anything else. The kids I knew from school also mentioned getting their backsides beat by the nuns, As rebellious as what Linda has said she was, it's not hard at all to believe she experienced those punishments she wrote about and maybe even the ones my classmates told me about. Glad I didn't go to a Catholic school.
But to hear those on the evangelical Religious Right, you would think that it was atheism or even outright anti-Christian.
What I know about the evangelicals, including some of whom are my family and some are others I know, many are like this. But, not all. A lot of evangelicals believe only their religion is the right one and all other religions or spiritual beliefs are wrong. And that non-Christians, atheists, agnostics, deists, any other Christian religion, et al are going to you know where. I embraced deism as I could not embrace any religion promoted hatred and intolerance. I'm still a deist but these days I lean towards universalism, which some evangelicals think is wrong too. Evangelicals even hate other evangelicals who don't agree with their dogma. Talk about being schizophrenic!
This is likely what provoked Linda to say what she said in 2004 about not wanting to know whether there were any Holy Rollers in the audience whenever she did her concerts. More than a few of those on the Religious Right take extreme umbrage at any attacks on their beliefs without ever examining the real reasons for the disdain for Christianity in general among a sizeable portion of the American populace. Maybe Linda could have stated it in a more compassionate way than she did, but I don't think it would have made that much of a difference. After all, she doesn't have a "filter", and has always been a straight shooter.
I believe a lot of Christians took Linda's comments wrong. I don't believe she meant for her criticism to be taken as mean-spirited, but was just a call to check your personal beliefs at the door and enjoy the show. She had a right to dedicate any song she wanted but it wasn't a knock on religion. She had (and has) issues with religion, which may have more to do with church dogmas and personal beliefs than the churches themselves. I don't think Linda would have an issue with anyone who could show her a Biblical admonition on a church dogma or a personal belief, but most times the reasons for a dogma or personal belief is taking something from the Bible out of context or is not in there at all.
Linda has always been a straight shooter in a world where people want to hear what they want to hear. And people can't stand to hear the blinding light of truth. In short, don't try to confuse them with knowledge and facts. They know what they know and they'd rather remain blind and ignorant.
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Post by sliderocker on May 6, 2021 1:02:18 GMT -5
If Jesus is lost I am sure someone will find him before Linda. More and more people these days wear religious ornaments and practice religious holidays as tradition rather than out of belief. In the same way those religions adopted, assimilated and claimed the pagan traditions into their own organization during their origins period. One's transition out of this life is as easy as going from one room to another. Still the same person but in a different location. No beliefs required. It's not a good idea or healthy to project our own hopes and needs onto another no matter how well meant. And it really isn't necessary in the order of things. We all love Linda. She will be just fine with all our "well wishes" as the wind beneath her wings. Well said, Holly. And hello and welcome to the forum.
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Post by sliderocker on May 6, 2021 1:12:53 GMT -5
Linda is a humanist/humanitarian definitely. I hope a museum, such as the Everley Brothers, Glen Campbell, Elvis Presley etc have may be established and filled with genuine Linda treasures reflecting her life and career. Rather see that than the usual stuff. Linda is a humanitarian, I agree. A humanist, I'm not too sure about that. And likewise, I would love to see a museum for Linda with her treasures. I suppose that would be up to her family, her children, when Linda leaves this world. And I don't like thinking about that inevitability. Linda and her music has been a part of my life since I was 13, though as I always say, I have not been a part of her personal life. If such a museum ever comes to pass, I hope it wouldn't be in one of the homes she lived in. I've always been an Elvis fan and I'm not a fan of his home having been turned into a museum. His Graceland home was meant for his daughter, not for his ex-wife to turn into a museum. It's made a lot of money but it's sad Lisa's time there has to be limited. I wouldn't want to see that happen to Linda's kids. So, if there is a museum, not a place where she lived.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 3:42:34 GMT -5
A Ronstadt family museum in Tucson, with a big Linda section, would be fine. .
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Post by eddiejinnj on May 6, 2021 6:43:39 GMT -5
I was going to say that the family should be in one of the museums in Tuscon already, maybe a wing named for them. They could probably do a separate family one but, imo, the best bet would be a space/addition to an established museum. The family history is significant in Tuscon. I am not sure if we discussed if the family had things in museums already. I know there were pretty detailed threads on family history on here so maybe it has been discussed. eddiejinnj
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Post by Partridge on May 6, 2021 11:36:51 GMT -5
Just an offhand remark here, probably more to instigate than anything else, but if one wants moral guidance, Aesop's Fables is the best bet.
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Post by sliderocker on May 6, 2021 11:56:03 GMT -5
I was going to say that the family should be in one of the museums in Tuscon already, maybe a wing named for them. They could probably do a separate family one but, imo, the best bet would be a space/addition to an established museum. The family history is significant in Tuscon. I am not sure if we discussed if the family had things in museums already. I know there were pretty detailed threads on family history on here so maybe it has been discussed. eddiejinnj Totally good idea, Eddie. I agree a separate wing or museum for the Ronstadt family would be needed as Linda's accomplishments far exceeded the accomplishments of her family in Tuscon. Also have to wonder how many Linda fans would want to check out the influence of Linda's family in Tuscon and how it related to her career? Linda's family all being musically inclined for instance, could be included in a museum on Linda as that would be related. The family hardware store? Maybe, but more likely included in a family museum. Linda's musical group with her older brother and sister would be relateable. Linda's older brother being the police chief in Tuscon. Family museum. I hope there will be museums for Linda and her family. Given what they charge nowadays to get in to see Elvis's Graceland home (which is ridiculously too high), museums for both Linda and her family would have to be affordable, though I guess any admission prices would be dictated by the costs associated with getting the things ready to be in a museum.
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Post by PoP80 on May 6, 2021 13:16:27 GMT -5
I was going to say that the family should be in one of the museums in Tuscon already, maybe a wing named for them. They could probably do a separate family one but, imo, the best bet would be a space/addition to an established museum. The family history is significant in Tuscon. I am not sure if we discussed if the family had things in museums already. I know there were pretty detailed threads on family history on here so maybe it has been discussed. eddiejinnj Maybe there could be an exhibit in The Arizona History Museum on the Ronstadt family roots, since they were so prominent and made many contributions to the history and culture.
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Post by eddiejinnj on May 6, 2021 15:04:32 GMT -5
I just think it so cool their name is on the arch at the transportation center in Tuscon. A Ronstadt museum wing in Tuscon would be great. eddiejinnj
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Post by sliderocker on May 8, 2021 11:36:21 GMT -5
Just an offhand remark here, probably more to instigate than anything else, but if one wants moral guidance, Aesop's Fables is the best bet. LOL! partridge, that was one good zinger. Missed it the other day and I'm sorry that I did, but you have given me the best laugh for the day. And I salute you for that! Cheers!!
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Post by Deborah on Jul 24, 2021 8:30:00 GMT -5
In the Vanity Fair interview, Linda mentions her atheist soul. I don't know what she means by that. In the Grace Cathedral interview back in February she said she was a complete Agnostic, which means you're neither a believer or a non-believer. You have doubts as to the existence of God or gods. Is she now saying she's an Atheist? That would mean she doesn't believe in anything. I really don't know what she believes in. I don't recall her really talking about the subject at length in any interviews, and I don't think she says much about it in her book either. Personally, I'm a Christian, but not an extremely religious person. I think I'm more spiritual than anything. I'm a member of a Lutheran church, but I haven't attended for a very long time. It's mostly because I have a job that requires me to work on Sundays and holidays. A lot of people have to do that. But I live my life the way I think God wants me to live it. I'm kind and generous to people. I think that's more important than anything. There are a lot of people who do attend church every Sunday, but they don't conduct themselves as Christians during the week. They are hypocrites, and I personally know a few of those. I know Linda was critical in the past about fundamental Christians, or conservative Christians, especially when she made that comment about the people in her audiences. She said it makes her uncomfortable when she knows they're in her audience; it can cloud her enjoyment. I'm certainly not one of them; and I'm a Democrat, so that wouldn't apply to me. I guess I just find it hard to believe that Linda doesn't believe in anything. She seems like a very spiritual person to me. She did record a Christmas album, so that would lead me to believe that she's not an Atheist. I know she was raised Catholic, but her experiences as a young girl in Catholic school changed her way of thinking. She talked about that some in her book. But I'm just confused about her beliefs. Does anyone else feel the same way I do? Can anyone help explain this?
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