|
Post by JasonKlose on Oct 29, 2013 10:50:38 GMT -5
In the Vanity Fair interview, Linda mentions her atheist soul. I don't know what she means by that. In the Grace Cathedral interview back in February she said she was a complete Agnostic, which means you're neither a believer or a non-believer. You have doubts as to the existence of God or gods. Is she now saying she's an Atheist? That would mean she doesn't believe in anything. I really don't know what she believes in. I don't recall her really talking about the subject at length in any interviews, and I don't think she says much about it in her book either.
Personally, I'm a Christian, but not an extremely religious person. I think I'm more spiritual than anything. I'm a member of a Lutheran church, but I haven't attended for a very long time. It's mostly because I have a job that requires me to work on Sundays and holidays. A lot of people have to do that. But I live my life the way I think God wants me to live it. I'm kind and generous to people. I think that's more important than anything. There are a lot of people who do attend church every Sunday, but they don't conduct themselves as Christians during the week. They are hypocrites, and I personally know a few of those.
I know Linda was critical in the past about fundamental Christians, or conservative Christians, especially when she made that comment about the people in her audiences. She said it makes her uncomfortable when she knows they're in her audience; it can cloud her enjoyment. I'm certainly not one of them; and I'm a Democrat, so that wouldn't apply to me.
I guess I just find it hard to believe that Linda doesn't believe in anything. She seems like a very spiritual person to me. She did record a Christmas album, so that would lead me to believe that she's not an Atheist. I know she was raised Catholic, but her experiences as a young girl in Catholic school changed her way of thinking. She talked about that some in her book. But I'm just confused about her beliefs. Does anyone else feel the same way I do? Can anyone help explain this?
|
|
|
Post by Richard W on Oct 29, 2013 14:06:44 GMT -5
Well, not believing in God (with a cap G) doesn't mean you don't believe in anything.
As you alluded to, she could be a spiritual and ethical person, but one who does not believe in organized religion or the accepted definition of God as defined by Judeo/Christian/Muslim faiths.
She could also believe in the wonders of nature and science.
|
|
|
Post by erik on Oct 29, 2013 14:40:07 GMT -5
Quote by Richard W:
We must also remember that this is a woman who once described herself as a "recovering Catholic."
It wouldn't surprise me if she did believe in the wonders of nature and science--especially since Science has often proven religion wrong in the way God makes things work.
|
|
|
Post by JasonKlose on Oct 29, 2013 16:34:27 GMT -5
Quote by Richard W: We must also remember that this is a woman who once described herself as a "recovering Catholic." It wouldn't surprise me if she did believe in the wonders of nature and science--especially since Science has often proven religion wrong in the way God makes things work. I understand what both of you are saying. When I was young and growing up, I was taught to believe that all things were created by God and that all things are controlled by him. But as I grew older I started to doubt many things that the Bible said. I don't believe in Creationism. I believe in science and evolution. It's just ridiculous to suggest that the world is only a few thousand years old. There's no way the changes in the Earth could take place in that short a time. I think people are just brainwashed to believe those things. But like I said, I'm not that religious of a person, I'm more spiritual. I believe in myself, in who I am, and in the way I treat other people. Just in how I live my life. I think Linda is the same way. I have heard her refer to herself as a "recovering Catholic," like you said. I guess I could describe myself in the same way.
|
|
|
Post by erik on Oct 29, 2013 18:13:31 GMT -5
Quote by jasonk73:
Since a belief in a higher power is perhaps the strongest belief in the world, it is also the easiest for some shaman or Sunday morning televangelist in a $10,000 suit to manipulate in a person--and to pervert, if 9/11 and the Iraq war are any indication to go by. I subscribe to no religious affiliation, but I do believe in God, and also believe that science has proven God to be much cleverer than the people who claim to have been talking to Him have let on.
It would seem that Linda's religious and/or spiritual beliefs, whatever they might be, are, like her, extremely complex. She experienced a lot in Catholic school that made her feel extremely uneasy about religion in general, but on the other hand she is drawn to all kinds of religious music from over the centuries, even including modern Gospel music.
|
|
|
Post by Partridge on Oct 29, 2013 19:24:16 GMT -5
I know Linda was critical in the past about fundamental Christians, or conservative Christians, especially when she made that comment about the people in her audiences. She said it makes her uncomfortable when she knows they're in her audience; it can cloud her enjoyment. I think Linda is misquoted here, and of course when it got picked up by the conservative media, they made a big deal of it. Conservative blog writers were aghast. I distinctly remember the first interview where Linda made a statement similar to this. It was around the time of the Las Vegas incident. She said she could understand why people in the audience were upset with her, because when she is attending a concert, she doesn't want to know if the performer is a Republican or a fundamentalist, because it can cloud her enjoyment. That makes perfectly good sense. I feel the same way myself to a degree. Linda has a habit of coming up with these big statements that she repeats over and over in interviews, and I think she was going to make that statement again, and maybe her tongue got ahead of her. To me, this statement about caring about the beliefs of people in the audience is ridiculous and makes no sense at all. And to add credence to my argument, I would point out that if Linda feels that way, she probably would not have appeared at Grace Cathedral. (Of course, that group is probably a liberal subset of Christians and maybe more left-leaning, but Linda would not have been able to concentrate worrying about the few right-wing Republicans who infiltrated the group.) I did email the reporter of the original article that had version #2 of the grand statement and asked him if perhaps the quote had gotten mangled. He assured me that he reported it the way Linda said it. He also said she was a joy to interview, and very intelligent. If Linda stands by that statement, I will just say that a performer should have more on his mind that worrying about the religious affilitation or political beliefs of audience members.
|
|
|
Post by revin2go on Oct 30, 2013 1:21:57 GMT -5
Linda is very religious...despite what she says. Remember she wore a crucifix with her black lace outfit during the Feels Like Home tour, she once replied to an interviewer, "I feel like the Virgin Mary compared to the tabloid sex symbols of today," and she also wanted to record with a group of nuns from a convent in Tucson. She's religious.
|
|
|
Post by eddiejinnj on Oct 30, 2013 6:48:01 GMT -5
linda said (to my knowledge) that about certain people in the audience that it clouds her judgment. I would bet on it but do not have time to look it up again. she seems to be very complex on the religious issue. I hope she is at peace whatever she believes. eddiejinnj
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Oct 30, 2013 11:14:26 GMT -5
Her comment about "atheist soul" was a little startling, as during her Grace Cathedral interview, she didn't actually say she was a complete agnostic. She said "I'm not a complete agnostic." And although that comment suggested she was leaning perhaps towards atheism, the door wasn't completely shut on the idea of her believing in God. Or a "god." Her Grace Cathedral comment suggested she was looking for answers, and perhaps she has found them. And there's no question in my mind that she is at peace with whatever she believes.
|
|
|
Post by JasonKlose on Oct 30, 2013 13:13:43 GMT -5
Her comment about "atheist soul" was a little startling, as during her Grace Cathedral interview, she didn't actually say she was a complete agnostic. She said "I'm not a complete agnostic." And although that comment suggested she was leaning perhaps towards atheism, the door wasn't completely shut on the idea of her believing in God. Or a "god." Her Grace Cathedral comment suggested she was looking for answers, and perhaps she has found them. And there's no question in my mind that she is at peace with whatever she believes. I'm not going to make a big deal out of this, but you're wrong on Linda's Grace Cathedral comment. Go back and listen to it carefully. She talks about music being so closely related to religious or spiritual experiences. She clearly says, "Maybe it's a way to get into alternate universes.......I don't know, I'm a complete agnostic myself. Why would she say "I'm not a complete agnostic"? Agnostic means you're not a believer or a non-believer.....you're in between. All I know is that Linda is a wonderful person who has doubts about what exists and what doesn't exist. Maybe she's still looking for answers. I'm still doing that myself. I think we all are doing that to a degree, and we will probably be doing that for the rest of our lives. But nothing changes the way I feel about Linda. I love her and always will. I hope too she's at peace with her life and in whatever she believes.
|
|
|
Post by eddiejinnj on Oct 30, 2013 14:47:07 GMT -5
see, I think that, she is searching for answers and maybe to resolve her bad nun experiences and questioning organized religions. she just seems to have so much about God and Jesus in her music. I think that she would follow what fundamental Christians believe but she feels that they are judgmental etc. True Christians and following Christ's teachings would not hurt anybody. It is those that say that this is the only way or you are bad (as is also the case with the Nazi's which weren't a religious group per se) that she seems to have problems with. In fact though, they are not true Christians as Christ was not judgmental and loved all people. That is why I profess for all of us to be nice to each other. We have differences but the common thread here (Linda) gives us a magnitude to share with each other in a respectful manner. eddiejinnj
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Oct 30, 2013 15:10:45 GMT -5
I'm not going to make a big deal out of this, but you're wrong on Linda's Grace Cathedral comment. Go back and listen to it carefully. She talks about music being so closely related to religious or spiritual experiences. She clearly says, "Maybe it's a way to get into alternate universes.......I don't know, I'm a complete agnostic myself. Why would she say "I'm not a complete agnostic"? Agnostic means you're not a believer or a non-believer.....you're in between. All I know is that Linda is a wonderful person who has doubts about what exists and what doesn't exist. Maybe she's still looking for answers. I'm still doing that myself. I think we all are doing that to a degree, and we will probably be doing that for the rest of our lives. But nothing changes the way I feel about Linda. I love her and always will. I hope too she's at peace with her life and in whatever she believes. I heard it as Linda "I'm not a complete agnostic," but will admit I could've heard that wrong as you are right in that "agnostic" indicates someone who is in between on the issue of God. But, I know atheists who take someone who says they are an agnostic as meaning the agnostic is one of them. I think in earlier days, the two words were often used interchangeably, both by atheists and by religious individuals. But, I'd still swear I heard it as Linda saying "I'm not a complete agnostic," by which if her frame of reference as to that word was that she was meaning atheist, it would make sense her saying it in that way. But, I will have another listen to the Grace Catherdral interview just to clarify the matter.
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Oct 30, 2013 15:48:55 GMT -5
I'm not going to make a big deal out of this, but you're wrong on Linda's Grace Cathedral comment. Go back and listen to it carefully. She talks about music being so closely related to religious or spiritual experiences. She clearly says, "Maybe it's a way to get into alternate universes.......I don't know, I'm a complete agnostic myself. Why would she say "I'm not a complete agnostic"? Agnostic means you're not a believer or a non-believer.....you're in between. All I know is that Linda is a wonderful person who has doubts about what exists and what doesn't exist. Maybe she's still looking for answers. I'm still doing that myself. I think we all are doing that to a degree, and we will probably be doing that for the rest of our lives. But nothing changes the way I feel about Linda. I love her and always will. I hope too she's at peace with her life and in whatever she believes. I heard it as Linda "I'm not a complete agnostic," but will admit I could've heard that wrong as you are right in that "agnostic" indicates someone who is in between on the issue of God. But, I know atheists who take someone who says they are an agnostic as meaning the agnostic is one of them. I think in earlier days, the two words were often used interchangeably, both by atheists and by religious individuals. But, I'd still swear I heard it as Linda saying "I'm not a complete agnostic," by which if her frame of reference as to that word was that she was meaning atheist, it would make sense her saying it in that way. But, I will have another listen to the Grace Catherdral interview just to clarify the matter. hmm.. that's funny slide. I thought I heard the same thing.. as in "not a complete agnostic." As in neither here nor there. I'll have to go back and listen as Jason probably heard correct but it sure did did sound like she said otherwise. As for being an atheist or agnostic. without getting into a heated conversation.. how in the hell can a person believe otherwise? Something or somebody with a higher intelligence created all of this..JMO lol Reminds me of something I once read which to me made perfect sense.. something as simple as this laptop I'm using.. somebody created it. it just didn't appear out of nowhere.. I use that same logic in a high power..
|
|
|
Post by revin2go on Oct 30, 2013 16:18:49 GMT -5
This my take on it, kids. A person very often doesn't even consider spirituality or religion until he/she is faced with his/her own mortality or the death of a close relative or friend. Linda's Parkinson's diagnosis, along with the death of several close friends and colleagues as well as her own family members may have forced Linda to reexamine her position on the subject. When one is a teenager or young adult, he/she feels invincible. As one ages and sees the reality of life, death is a given and one's spiritual nature becomes more important. Just food for thought.
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Oct 30, 2013 16:34:03 GMT -5
hmm.. that's funny slide. I thought I heard the same thing.. as in "not a complete agnostic." As in neither here nor there. I'll have to go back and listen as Jason probably heard correct but it sure did did sound like she said otherwise. As for being an atheist or agnostic. without getting into a heated conversation.. how in the hell can a person believe otherwise? Something or somebody with a higher intelligence created all of this..JMO lol Reminds me of something I once read which to me made perfect sense.. something as simple as this laptop I'm using.. somebody created it. it just didn't appear out of nowhere.. I use that same logic in a high power.. I just had another listen - with my ear to the speaker - and it is "I'm a complete agnostic," yet I don't know if she meant it as being an agnostic insofar as believing in God or if she meant it as it related to "alternate universes." Likewise, another curious, sad thing I picked up on listening to the Grace Cathedral interview again was that Linda mentioned using the sound of a person's voice to diagnose Parkinson's. Didn't she say she had been diagnosed in December of last year with that disease? But, as for who or what created the universe, likewise, I think some God or gods and goddesses, or some higher intelligence created the universe as I don't believe it just popped out of nowhere. It can't be self-created because even that would have to have some intelligece behind it. Something that doesn't exist can't create what does exist. That's the problem with atheists who deny the existence of God (or gods and goddesses) because in absence of God, if God doesn't exist, how did the universe come to exist? Something had to be there.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian on Nov 1, 2013 22:20:56 GMT -5
She sings like an Angel. That is all that matters to this life-long Linda fan!
|
|
|
Post by Robert Morse on Nov 2, 2013 12:06:30 GMT -5
She sings like an Angel. That is all that matters to this life-long Linda fan! Well said!
|
|
|
Post by revin2go on Nov 5, 2013 12:30:13 GMT -5
...and yet another inference to religion in a recent Linda interview with Vanity Fair:
VF: "You say that it took you 10 years to learn how to sing, but you also mention that you didn’t have any formal training until you did The Pirates of Penzance [in 1980]. So what were you referring to?"
LR: "I had to get out of my own way. Hildegard von Bingen said that singing is like being a feather on the breath of God. Which resonates to my atheist soul . . . You have to keep that little column of air under there, and I had gotten so panicked, my singing style had a lot of fear in it, and my throat was too tight and I wasn’t letting that air out properly. So I was a feather that had fallen to the ground—it’s just lying on the concrete floor.
By the time I got finished with Pirates, I had way more facility with my instrument."
Now if Linda were truly an atheist/agnostic, why on earth would she reference Hildegard von Bingen who is one of the great Christian mystics? Also, isn't the term "atheist soul" an oxymoron? If one is an atheist, one can hardly believe in the existence of a "soul."
It seems to me the more Linda denies her religion, the more apparent it becomes!
|
|
|
Post by jhar26 on Nov 5, 2013 12:53:27 GMT -5
Well, Hildegard von Bingen was a medieval composer, so maybe Linda's interest in her can be purely artistic. Some people argue that Linda must be religious because of that Christmas album she did, but that doesn't necessarily have to be so. Not everyone who ever sang Bach's music has to be a believer - some just love the music. I have a feeling that Linda isn't really convinced one way or the other. Or that she doesn't trust the church as an institution but has a sense of spirituallity or perhaps even believe for which no "middle man" (or church) is necessary because it's between her and this higher power or God or whatever you want to call it.
|
|
|
Post by musicaamator on Nov 11, 2013 13:28:54 GMT -5
I think if she is aware of her own moral compass, then her non-belief in religion is ok with me. For I am like that, but more an atheist.
|
|
|
Post by Devilin Jackson on Mar 22, 2014 0:52:01 GMT -5
We become careful at times / growth, but it is demented to think everything and circumstance fits into the same mold, as someone else is always the center in that mold. "Pretty Damn Moldy" but how else would we have an excuse for not moving on? Aster Plane, but then again there's always projection, of course it's human, but....
|
|
aero
A Number and a Name
Posts: 1
|
Post by aero on Apr 14, 2014 1:30:50 GMT -5
If I had been through what LMR experienced in getting into Rock and Country Music I think I would be a basket case. Getting into the music business can and usually is a difficult experience with prolifent drugs and unwanted physical relations. Many Singers and Actors lose their religion in the process of becoming successful.
Some how she was able to succeed in Pop and Country Music financially but did have a bout with white powder apparently severely eating away at her inner nostrils back in 73'?
After reading this entire site and her new book along with Wikepedia and seeing that she apparently came from a very good family I was surprised that she apparently used one of Satin's hard drugs. Performing on the road must be more difficult than I imagined.
LMR to me after making it through all of the inherent obstacles in breaking into the music industry is one of the Greatest Singers ever.
Hope her Doc has her doing physical exercise that can help Parkinson's patients maintain muscle fitness.
|
|
|
Post by POP80 on Apr 14, 2014 7:51:19 GMT -5
Hope her Doc has her doing physical exercise that can help Parkinson's patients maintain muscle fitness.
In a recent article, she mentioned that she is going to try the Mark Morris Dance classes for people with Parkinson's, which is a wonderful idea!!
|
|
|
Post by Anthony G Coppola on Mar 9, 2016 17:09:48 GMT -5
I bet she's praying now.
|
|
|
Post by brent1981 on Mar 13, 2016 4:51:32 GMT -5
Just watched the Letterman interview posted in the 1983 appearance thread, she really has an opinion about nuns and Catholicism. Check it out guys.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Mar 14, 2016 0:27:24 GMT -5
Arguably, as we age, as we grow our beliefs grow with us. I don't think Linda is any different. Personally I do not think her illness or recognition of her own mortality would change her beliefs much. Birth, death and renewal seems to be a theme but like me I think she has a hard time with the concept of someone dying for our sins. There is an order in the Universe and beyond. A natural order no matter what our religious beliefs may be. Religions only get in the way or become roadblocks to that order. They do make for an interesting and eventful existence here but one that is not always pleasant and causes major neuroses, pain and wars.
|
|
|
Post by eddiejinnj on Mar 14, 2016 9:27:43 GMT -5
Religious theory would say who created the natural order. Whether one believes in that or not is a core issue and how territorial man is does not have to be a competition between religious theories because when it comes down to it religions probably (am not an expert theologian) have more in common than not and their quote purposes and reasons why people believe included. eddiejinfl
|
|
|
Post by AceHall on Apr 19, 2017 2:04:14 GMT -5
I once heard Linda say, "I am a complete atheist. She then followed that with an addendum to her previous statement where she added, "...except that I pray to a Haitian goddess for Obama.
Now, I don't mean to nitpick, but how can one "pray" to a "goddess" without being somewhat religious? And what in the world could ..."a complete atheist except..." even mean?! It doesn't make any sense. And to those who are thinking what I think you are thinking, no, she was not joking.
Finally, didn't Linda used to spout lots of new age gobbledygook when she was co-habitating with Governor Moonbeam (Brown)? I know that Brown was uber "spiritual," so Linda must have believed some of the same crap. After all, they were together for quite a while, and even though they never married, that close proximity for that many years has to mean that they believed a lot of the same things. At least, that is the way that it usually works.
|
|
|
Post by moe on Apr 19, 2017 10:39:34 GMT -5
I once heard Linda say, "I am a complete atheist. She then followed that with an addendum to her previous statement where she added, "...except that I pray to a Haitian goddess for Obama. Now, I don't mean to nitpick, but how can one "pray" to a "goddess" without being somewhat religious? And what in the world could ..."a complete atheist except..." even mean?! It doesn't make any sense. And to those who are thinking what I think you are thinking, no, she was not joking. Finally, didn't Linda used to spout lots of new age gobbledygook when she was co-habitating with Governor Moonbeam (Brown)? I know that Brown was uber "spiritual," so Linda must have believed some of the same crap. After all, they were together for quite a while, and even though they never married, that close proximity for that many years has to mean that they believed a lot of the same things. At least, that is the way that it usually works. I'm willing to guess that in the first quote Linda was being kind of a smart-ass by throwing out a seeming non-sequitur. As far as a complete atheist I guess that is the opposite of a non-complete atheist? If one had to parse the statement I guess, like a lot of us, our spoken style in casual conversation is not as precise as our brain would like it to be so she added a redundant adjective. As far as New Age (should that be capitalized?) crap goes-crap, in my opinion, is the correct word. The only answer I can give is that at the time she was young and impressionable and that particular outlook was all the rage. At least she didn't tend toward any of the other weird shit going on at the same time.
Spiritual, I think, is a kind of a poor substitute for ethical or moral or empathetic. I really don't think one derives the qualities mentioned from "a spirit". As far as I know what we call spirituality is merely a evolutionary adaptation in order to further the survival interests of our species. What is strange is that we, as human, with our massive brain, seem determined to work against the interest of the welfare of the species. This seemingly contradictory propensity, quite unique among critters speaks, if anything, to the existence of a malevolent as opposed to a benevolent force acting on us. This malevolent force is as fanciful as a benevolent one-we are most likely just a species of dunderheads.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 20, 2017 8:56:17 GMT -5
I think Linda is a Pagan Liberation Theologist. (PLT)
Personally I think the New Age movement was interesting, delightful and long overdue. It freed millions from traditional religious enslavement and focused on the individual as a spiritual being and took the politics out of religion. It did for religion what Rock did for music.
Mexican Catholicism is basically pagan. Just like the Romans conquered and embraced Christianity (and made up a Bible) to save Rome so did the Catholic church conquer and embrace and incorporate the pagan worship of Guadalupe in Mexico. I am sure Linda was influenced by that as a youngster. She even traded in her Sin City jacket for a Guadalupe jacket on her Mexican road trip concerts. I am sure I have a photo of that somewhere.
|
|