just chatting

[terryarceneaux]

Some time ago we had talked about Linda being a perfetionist when it came to her recordings.
I think that what made her albums go good she took the time to do it right.
( a friend of mine once made a remark how today music is not the same anymore( They will make a song about anything these days and it would be a hit.)).
I don't think country music is the same anymore That way a statement ( Alan Jackson) made some time ago.
Yesterday's artist music had a story behind the music.
Todays music not so much a story no more. Some have a story
most do not...
I'm always in search of the old music I grew up with they are getting hard to find.
I just have to keep looking .

[erik]

Linda was always very relentless about making the best album she could, but sometimes, most especially as the 90s went on, the gap between album releases was no longer merely a year or two, but three and even four years. This could, and in some ways did, try the patience of fans, and certainly the ordinary record buyers.

As for country music as it stands today--I'm sorry, it really does not hold up to what came before. It's mere 80s arena rock drenched in drawl and twang, and has nothing to do with real rural life, or anything remotely close to it. Linda has called it "mall crawler music"; and Emmy calls mainstream country "vanilla."

[sliderocker]

Linda was always very relentless about making the best album she could, but sometimes, most especially as the 90s went on, the gap between album releases was no longer merely a year or two, but three and even four years. This could, and in some ways did, try the patience of fans, and certainly the ordinary record buyers.

As for country music as it stands today--I'm sorry, it really does not hold up to what came before. It's mere 80s arena rock drenched in drawl and twang, and has nothing to do with real rural life, or anything remotely close to it. Linda has called it "mall crawler music"; and Emmy calls mainstream country "vanilla."

I don't understand artists and groups taking long extended breaks between albums. We've come a long way from the days in the 60s when an act released a minimum of two albums several year - some released more. And the 70s when most artists still released at least one new album every year. Three to five years is a long time between albums but there were a handful of artists who didn't release a new album for ten years! I thought that was an incredibly stupid thing to do as out of sight + out of mind = poor sales.

As for the current state of country music, much of it does sound like 80s arena rock, yet I think the country audiences and performers of one generation have always lamented and criticized the next state of country music and its performers. I recall many of Nashville's finest from the 50s and 60s lamenting the infusion of rock music into country music in the 70s, a move which left them out of favor as most still wanted to keep making the same kind of music over and over again. But, that sound didn't stay popular with most audiences, just the fans who were there originally when it was popular or became a fan of that sound later on. I do agree with Linda's and Emmylou's assessments of current country music as I think many of those acts should be considered rock acts. Why they were not signed as a rock act is a mystery but I still believe that many of Nashville's finest from yesteryear would still be complaining about those who truly are country. But, I still believe a lot of their complaints have more to do with their own lack of sales and jealousy about the new kids in town whom they blame for not being able to be heard on radio.

[erik]

Quote by sliderocker:

I do agree with Linda's and Emmylou's assessments of current country music as I think many of those acts should be considered rock acts. Why they were not signed as a rock act is a mystery but I still believe that many of Nashville's finest from yesteryear would still be complaining about those who truly are country. But, I still believe a lot of their complaints have more to do with their own lack of sales and jealousy about the new kids in town whom they blame for not being able to be heard on radio.

The Nashville record execs see a guy wearing blue jeans, a belt buckle, a big hat, and talking with a drawl, and that's how they put the "country" tagline on him. In fact, that's how Linda reportedly once described them to Jimmy Webb: "guys with big hats." She might have added, given her disdain for what passes for country music today, that these guys are "all hat and no cattle." It hasn't anything to do with reality; it's all about image. These guys think that coming from a small town with a big Wal-Mart, American flags flying in the breeze, and people going to church on Sunday morning are all that's needed to really be "country."

Linda, however, actually knew what rural meant, having grown up on a ranch in the middle of a vast desert. She was out in nature a lot; she rode horses along desert and mountain trails; and she listened to every strain of music, including every single strain of country music, on the radio. All of those things, and much more, are imprinted in her mind; and it doesn't take much to believe that when you hear her do songs with a Western theme like "Old Paint", "Desperado", or "Colorado." She misses that actual rural aspect of the music today.

The fact that neither she nor Emmy get played anymore really doesn't seem to bother her. And I don't think it's even the invasion of pop and rock influences that bugs her about today's country music. It is the kind of influences: the arena rock that helped to turn her off to rock during the 80s. Slap on some fiddles or steel guitars, and then you've got what she calls "mall crawler music." What you don't have are artists who have even the remotest idea of what country music or real rural life are about. That, I believe, is what really makes Linda feel the way she does about this half-a**ed stuff that passes for "country."

[Richard W]

I've often found Linda's comments on recorded music vs. live music somewhat flummoxing. On the one hand she's said that she doesn't care for recorded music, yet is a perfectionist in the studio both as artist and producer. On the other hand, she's also professed a preference of live performance, yet dislikes performing.

And Erik, you got it exactly right on the current state of country music. You can alter the form of the genre (any genre) -- that's how music stays fresh. But when you fiddle with the genre's essence, when you cut out its heart, you kill the spirit of the music itself.

[terryarceneaux]

I was listen to a country song a few day ago. There was no country in that music.
I wish they would play more of Linda, Emmy and other fine artist I listen to grown up..

Does Linda even listen to radio herself. If so what would she like to listen to ?
I found an oldies station here in Nashville but very little Linda is played and when played
they don't play the whole song they talk thru most of it. and go to a new song before her song is over I hate that.
That the main reason I have my cd I can play them till cow fly and not miss a song.

[sliderocker]

The Nashville record execs see a guy wearing blue jeans, a belt buckle, a big hat, and talking with a drawl, and that's how they put the "country" tagline on him. In fact, that's how Linda reportedly once described them to Jimmy Webb: "guys with big hats." She might have added, given her disdain for what passes for country music today, that these guys are "all hat and no cattle." It hasn't anything to do with reality; it's all about image. These guys think that coming from a small town with a big Wal-Mart, American flags flying in the breeze, and people going to church on Sunday morning are all that's needed to really be "country."

Linda, however, actually knew what rural meant, having grown up on a ranch in the middle of a vast desert. She was out in nature a lot; she rode horses along desert and mountain trails; and she listened to every strain of music, including every single strain of country music, on the radio. All of those things, and much more, are imprinted in her mind; and it doesn't take much to believe that when you hear her do songs with a Western theme like "Old Paint", "Desperado", or "Colorado." She misses that actual rural aspect of the music today.

The fact that neither she nor Emmy get played anymore really doesn't seem to bother her. And I don't think it's even the invasion of pop and rock influences that bugs her about today's country music. It is the kind of influences: the arena rock that helped to turn her off to rock during the 80s. Slap on some fiddles or steel guitars, and then you've got what she calls "mall crawler music." What you don't have are artists who have even the remotest idea of what country music or real rural life are about. That, I believe, is what really makes Linda feel the way she does about this half-a**ed stuff that passes for "country."

More often than not, the guys wearing the blue jeans, big hat and nelt buckle (which can sometimes be very big itself) are definitely the country types, maybe more redneck than actual cowboy. So, the Nashville record executive wouldn't be far off in tagging that kind of person country even though that kind of person may not have the first clue as to what it means to be truly rural.

As for where country is coming from, small towns can definitely be rural areas. Many of them have Wal Marts but many of them don't. The rural wilderness of Linda's youth really doesn't exist anymore. She grew up at a time when the country's population was right around 150 million. In the 60s, when I was growing up, it was around 175 million. I remember when living in a rural area could mean that your next door neighbor could be a few miles away. Now, 310 million later, rural is almost an obsolete term. There's still rural areas out there but not like there once was, so the definition of country like everything else, changes with the times and as the population changes. We are more Wal Mart Nation than perhaps we want to admit to being.

But, as for the flying of the flag and going to church on Sundays, well, that too has always been part of country's makeup. Country performers have always wrapped themselves up in the flag with their mostly ultra conservative values. And many of the old time country artists often recorded several gospel-oriented albums, designed to appeal to the genre's church-going audience. So, that's a part of country that hasn't really chanegd although everything else has changed.

But, I think country will sound even more foreign to what it once was. What I think happened with the country genre - and the rock genre for that matter, is that the music began to lose its soul in the 80s. There was a kind of sterility to the sound that wasn't there in earlier eras. But, how many artists around today liked that kind of music and were influenced by it and see nothing wrong with it? Mall crawler music will pass but my guess is Linda and many of her fans won't like what comes after mall crawler arena-rock country either.

[erik]

Quote by richwar re. Linda's attitudes on studio versus stage:

I've often found Linda's comments on recorded music vs. live music somewhat flummoxing. On the one hand she's said that she doesn't care for recorded music, yet is a perfectionist in the studio both as artist and producer. On the other hand, she's also professed a preference of live performance, yet dislikes performing.

I agree that it is a problem for us, to know that she's one way on the studio-versus-stage issue one day, and then the complete opposite on another day. It could easily be mood swings; and while every one of us has those from time to time, when it comes to Linda, being in the field she's in where recording and live performances are part of what the job entails, it may be more extreme with her. You just never know.


Re. current state of country music:

And Erik, you got it exactly right on the current state of country music. You can alter the form of the genre (any genre) -- that's how music stays fresh. But when you fiddle with the genre's essence, when you cut out its heart, you kill the spirit of the music itself.

I think they wanted to get away from the hay bales, and the cornpone image of country folk depicted on The Beverly Hillbillies and Hee Haw, but then they took it to the other extreme, which is dip into 80s arena rock and Southern rock (and not even the best parts of them) with fiddles and steel guitars swamped under walls of faux heavy metal electric guitars. The worst part, I think, is this recent trend about dropping the names of country music legends in the lyrics of songs without really knowing who the hell they're even talking about. Talk about Cliche City.

Linda, as folk and rock-oriented as she was, at the very least felt that country music could progress without losing its traditional spirit or roots. Classic honky-tonk songs like "Crazy Arms" and "I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You" are great examples of Linda's approach: true to the spirit of the thing, but an innate ability on her part to make them relevant once more to her own generation. It wasn't easy for her to do, but she succeeded eventually. I don't think that the current crop of Nashville heavyweights, especially the pretty boys with the goatees and big hats, understands this whatsoever; I just don't.

[Dianna]

Jun 6, 2012 9:42:33 GMT -5 Richard W said:

You can alter the form of the genre (any genre) -- that's how music stays fresh. But when you fiddle with the genre's essence, when you cut out its heart, you kill the spirit of the music itself.

And that pretty much sums it up! Like rap in a country song.. what's next emo country?

[Dianna]

And you don't see a lot of the pioneers of C&W at those award shows either. Willie makes an appearance at times or Glen.. but where is Merle?Last I heard he told the award shows to shove it. My b/f told me, he was performing a free concert at the Queen Mary in Long Bch, Ca..some time ago... that's the kind of music I'd like to hear now and again on the tribute shows.

[erik]

Quote by dianna:

And that pretty much sums it up! Like rap in a country song.. what's next emo country?

I shudder to think about that possibility.

[philly]

Don't worry, the future of Country is in good hands

Is Taylor Swift an Effective Gateway Drug for Country?
May 29, 2012 - By The Triggerman // Random Notes // 55 Comments

Last week it was revealed that in the June issue of the upcoming W Magaine, Miranda Lambert lets loose one mother of a backhanded compliment toward Taylor Swift, saying:

Taylor Swift is a pop singer. But she really helped country music. When she hit, I was thinking, Thank God Taylor’s out there to show people we’re not cheesy. Some people still think that country music is twangy and cheesy, and they pigeonhole us. But I thought if they’re looking for Taylor’s videos or songs, they might see or hear other people they like. If her fans are watching for her, they might like me too.

There’s really many things to unravel from this Miranda statement, including that she calls out Taylor for not being country, but then praises her for showing people country is not “twangy.” Isn’t the presence of twang what makes country country? And the lack of it is what makes country pop? Isn’t Miranda herself offered up many times as an example of country twang? It hearkens back to statements Jason Aldean made before the ACM Awards, about how he didn’t want people thinking country was hayseeds sitting on hay bales.

But more important is this question of how effective Taylor Swift is as a country music apostle, going out there in the world, turning crossover fans into country converts with her music. This certainly must be one of the theories behind the move announced today by the Country Music Hall of Fame to open a “Taylor Swift Speak Now: Treasures of the World Tour” exhibit on June 6th, running through November. Taylor just made a massive $4 million donation to the Hall of Fame for a children’s education center. The two couldn’t be related, could they?

But the Hall of Fame has already had a small Swift display up for a while, across from some of the biggest memorabilia the Hall boasts at the west end of the top floor. The idea is to engage the kiddos with someone they can relate to, and then maybe, just maybe, they may give some attention to all this old people, backwoods hillbilly stuff.

Is this theory effective? I don’t know. And the question embodies the underlying dichotomy of Taylor Swift. In one respect, she’s the country music savior we’ve all been waiting for. She writes her own songs, plays her own music, produces her own albums, respects herself, is a positive role, and gives back to the community. As a product, she’s brought tremendous revenue to a struggling industry and genre. Bless her heart, she has inspired millions. And as pop, her music holds tremendous levity. But the problem still remains: Taylor Swift is not country.

Do we really think legions of her fans are going to gateway from her music to Waylon Jennings, or even Alan Jackson, or even Justin Townes Earle? And for as many people she may convert to the pop version of country, may she scare just as many away from the traditional side? What are the ratios here? For all the good she may do enticing young fans to the genre, is she chasing away the older ones?

I don’t have any answers here. Taylor could be doing tremendous amounts of good, or she could be doing irreplaceable damage to country. Or her toll could be a complete wash. I think Taylor Swift has done tremendous good for society, culture, and music in general. But I think it’s important for all of us to question the effectiveness of Taylor Swift as a country music gateway drug, and what the lingering, long-term side effects of that drug could be.

www.savingcountrymusic.com/is-taylor-swift-an-effective-gateway-drug-for-country

[erik]

I shudder even more to think what Taylor Swift is doing for or to country music.


Quote by sliderocker:

As for where country is coming from, small towns can definitely be rural areas. Many of them have Wal Marts but many of them don't. The rural wilderness of Linda's youth really doesn't exist anymore.

Come to think of it, neither do the simple rural values anymore, whatever the Nashville crowd might think. Not only has country music been reduced to a series of cliches, but recently we've also gotten so many hits by bad-a**es (not all of them men) who brag "I'M COUNTRY!!!" over a wall of loud electric guitars and choruses and bad-a** boys. It's really kind of sick to listen to, and I can understand why Linda and Emmy both got very cynical about it all.

[sliderocker]

Come to think of it, neither do the simple rural values anymore, whatever the Nashville crowd might think. Not only has country music been reduced to a series of cliches, but recently we've also gotten so many hits by bad-a**es (not all of them men) who brag "I'M COUNTRY!!!" over a wall of loud electric guitars and choruses and bad-a** boys. It's really kind of sick to listen to, and I can understand why Linda and Emmy both got very cynical about it all.

It probably doesn't matter too much to the older Nashville crowd who are still around and their audience, who likely are members of senior citizen retirement centers. Country music was always partly a series of cliches: the whole God, the flag and apple pie bit. I think it was inevitable that country's ruralness would give way to a more citified country sound as fewer people grew up with that kind of environment. You still have it in places but not in the way it existed in earlier times. I suppose that the day will come when we - and Linda and Emmylou and others - are maybe gone from this world, that there will be people mourning the loss of the citifed country sound with whatever comes next in the evolution of country music. I'm surprised some country performer hasn't tried his or her hand at space age/new age country. It may have happened but if it did, I missed it.

[terryarceneaux]

Do you think Linda was competeing agaist herself to make one album better then the last ?
Out of all the album Linda has produced what album out did all the album on sales she made.

out of all albums she made what bomb out on sales.

What album made it to the top charts , that she did not think it would hit the charts but made it.

[erik]

Quote by terryarcenaux:

Do you think Linda was competeing agaist herself to make one album better then the last ?
Out of all the album Linda has produced what album out did all the album on sales she made.

out of all albums she made what bomb out on sales.

What album made it to the top charts , that she did not think it would hit the charts but made it.

I think competing against oneself is something in the backs of a lot of artists' minds, even Linda's; but I don't think she lets that kind of pressure get to her. Her goal is to just make the best album she can, and then let the record/CD-buying public decide; she can't worry about record sales, or whom she "beats" to The Top. The fact that three of those albums went all the way to #1 on the Billboard Album Chart, and that every single album of hers from 1973 to 1990, including the compilation albums, sold anywhere from 500,000 to 7.5 million copies each is not something she lets get to her head.

It probably doesn't bother her too much either that, after 1991, her albums sales basically took a nosedive (the highest on the album chart she has gone since 1991 has been the #62 showing for Trio II in 1999). She has had her time in the sun. But for certain, us fans and four generations worth of her fellow female peers have had fun enjoying it.

[Partridge]

I think Linda's biggest sellers were:
Simple Dreams
What's New
Cry Like a Rainstorm Howl Like the Wind

sales duds:
We Ran
Merry Little Christmas
Frenesi

underperformers (sales-wise):
Feels Like Home
Winter Light
Hummin' to Myself

[terryarceneaux]

I enjoy every album Linda has ever made wether they were a big hit or not.
I'm a big fan of linda's and admire her over the years of her music .
I stick by Linda's music no matter what.
To me every song she made is number 1 .
I think she has a way at looking at life that make me love her even more. !!!