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Post by rick on Apr 3, 2012 17:43:22 GMT -5
Interesting thread....First we all need to remember that recording and video taping are illegal. Their are rights associated with performances etc and bootlegging is illegal. Now, aside from that, is it also just RUDE. I think in a concert situation people have more patience with cameras etc because, let's face it, in a hockey arena, a camera flash is the least of the distraction. However, when we move to a Broadway theater, it is a different story. When I pay $125+ for a Broadway show I want to be able to go to the theater and be immersed in the show. I happen to be fortunate to go to many Broadway shows and I can tell you that the behavior of audiences continues to get worse. When did it became acceptable to sit barefoot and eat your fried chicken in during the show I will never know! If you need to text or talk on your cell - save yourself the $125+ and stay home. You can text and I will not be distracted. As society as a whole continues to become more "me" focused people have less and less concern for how their behavior impacts others. As for Patti LuPone I think she probably just had enough of the bad behavior. Patti is a professional. (having seen her in Gypsy multiple times I can easily say that her performance as Rose was easily the finest I have ever seen on Broadway.) I am sure this is distracting to her and I am sure she knows it is distracting to others in the audience. As she said to the offender "who do you think you are?" - perhaps that is an appropriate question for anyone who engages in this rude behavior. Great post, Rob. I agree with you regarding Patti in "Gypsy." I actually first saw her perform it when she did it at the Ravinia Festival just out of Chicago prior to taking it to New York, and then I saw it on Broadway. I understand what you are saying about just because people don't get caught doesn't make it all right. A few years ago, I went to see/hear Stephen Sondheim at UCLA. Long story short, two people arrived 15 minutes after the start time, of course they came in and sat next to me and started recording it AND eating. It was very distracting. I was in the middle of a row and I also walk with a cane, so it would have been bothersome to people for me to try to get out of my seat/the row to get an usher. I did write a letter to the man who ran the series at the time. There were signs all over the outside of Royce Hall at UCLA saying "No Latecomers Will Be Seated" and also "The use of cameras or recording devices is strictly prohibited." When I asked Mr. Sefton about the signs and then told him about the people who arrived 15 minutes late and that they were videotaping it, he basically wrote me that they put the signs up as deterrents. He said that he values the safety of his ushers and that he couldn't and wouldn't enforce the policies out of concern that an audience member would do physical harm to his staff. He said that it had occurred when someone was told they couldn't bring in recording equipment and he just decided to hope that the signs weeded out some people and the rest would just happen as it would. So, bottom line, yes, Rob, it is rude. And it happens. When you talked about the people eating in Broadway theaters, I remember after I had seen Patti LuPone in "Sweeney Todd" on Broadway that she said in an interview how someone would sit down in the first row and take out a full-on meal and proceed to sit there and eat vigorously, food flying in the air, etc. And she said she was bowled over that someone would do that in a Broadway house, but that she practically played the entire performance for that couple to try to get them to stop eating and then she realized that it was no use. |
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Post by sliderocker on Apr 3, 2012 18:57:02 GMT -5
I guess it's kind of like saying there are not enough police resources to prevent all bank robberies - so it is ok to do it if you can get away with it. not to mention that it is RUDE!!! No, I'm not saying that it's okay, just that if they arrested everyone at a concert who was recording the concert in some manner, they wouldn't have enough police on hand to watch everyone and catch them at it. Oh, sure, they could arrest everyone they see with their cellphones open and filming but judging from what I've seen of cellphone filming, people aren't filming the entire concert, just part of the concert. But, when it comes to their photography skills, most people are extreme amateurs. As for most of the people who are involved in the bootlegging business, I think many are people who are pros at it. That is, they may work in some environment where they deal with recording equipment in some fashion. Tv stations, radio stations, local recording studios, even with the artist or bands themselves or their management. I recall reading in Goldmine several years back that the Beatles' "Rarities" album released by Capitol resulted from an in-house bootleg at Capitol. That is, someone pressed up something like 900 copies of a bootlegged version before Capitol even got the bright idea to release an album of rarities. An average fan in 1980 would not have had access to the equipment needed to press up 900 vinyl albums. Sure, a fan can these days produce a low grade mono cd or dvd of a concert out of his or her home and sell it for $25, but how many fans are actually doing that? |
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Post by Dianna on Apr 3, 2012 19:14:46 GMT -5
well, regardless when we post youtubes of Linda bootleg concerts or snippets from camera phones here, we'e contributing to the problem some seem to have an issue with.  |
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Post by sliderocker on Apr 3, 2012 19:24:10 GMT -5
I guess it's kind of like saying there are not enough police resources to prevent all bank robberies - so it is ok to do it if you can get away with it. not to mention that it is RUDE!!! well, yes, it is rude.. I guess we have to look at it from the artists prospective and our own protecting our own pesonal belongings or like a bank does.. I remember when I was a kid I would record the top 40 from my the radio to my tape recorder, it was for my own personal use.. its basically the same thing so you can't control that.. copying is copying but like slide said you can't weed out the bad intensions from the good.. It's up to the venue or the artist/management to handle their property..and if they choose to be more lenient with concert goers. Everyone knows if you attempt to knock off a bank, it's because you want the money to spend it.. and if you get caught you're gonna suffer pretty badly, that's why most people won't do it.lol.. Exactly. Most people aren't into recording a concert for the express purpose of ripping the artist off by releasing a bootleg. It's for the purpose of reliving a moment of their lives when they got to see and hear an artist or band they happened to like. |
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Post by sliderocker on Apr 3, 2012 19:25:58 GMT -5
well, regardless when we post youtubes of Linda bootleg concerts or snippets from camera phones here, we'e contributing to the problem some seem to have an issue with. Excellent point, Dianna! |
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Post by rick on Apr 3, 2012 23:42:52 GMT -5
well, regardless when we post youtubes of Linda bootleg concerts or snippets from camera phones here, we'e contributing to the problem some seem to have an issue with. Point taken, dianna. You are correct. But if we (Tony, Erik) had a rule that no one here was allowed to post anything unless it had the express written consent of Linda Ronstadt and / or companies to which she had signed agreements, this Forum would be far weaker for it. I am not saying this is any easy thing to deal with. I did mention in more than one post that I grapple with it and have purchased a copy of the HBO concert that Linda gave in 1980 during the time of "Mad Love." Being a loyal and devoted fan, if and when Linda and or HBO or Time Warner decides to release a commercial DVD of that concert, I will buy it. I think that is the difference between real fans and people who don't have a conscience. It's the people who are rude (as Rob quoted Patti LuPone as saying, "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!") and inconsiderate. My purchase of a DVD taken from an HBO airing of Linda's concert in 1980 at Television City was not an amateur-shot video. It was pro shot. This discussion began when I posted a YouTube link to a video show at the Gibson Amphitheatre in Universal City and I asked Erik if he remembered Linda wearing that outfit and we got into the discussion of how people pull this off. Slide, your points are well-taken. But I think if you go back to the initial post in this thread and look at the video, it probably was not something taken with a cell phone. I don't think you'd get a) the length of an entire song with a cellphone (maybe, but...) and b) I do not think it would have the quality that this video has. Again, as I've said, I've been to performances where someone right next to me has had a camcorder to videotape the entire event. I've not inquired as to the level of their experience. But these things do show up online with regularity. And as Rob said, it is illegal. But so is texting while driving. And there aren't enough law enforcement officers around to ticket everyone who does it. |
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Post by Robert Morse on Apr 4, 2012 9:33:51 GMT -5
Rick - sounds like you are a big Patti fan too. I just cannot get enough. Got tickets to see her at Below 54 in June. I thnk what is more annoying (and rude) than recording is the use of cell phones and texting/checking email. You can turn on your recorder and put it away and it distracts no one. The light from the phone is just very distracting. I think it is safe to say when we pay for a ticket we are not paying to be distracted by someone who just cannot turn off their phne for 2.5 hours. I mean really - what is so important. Also - when did it becme common practice to talk through the overture? Have a little respect for the usicinas and LISTEN!!!! Another thing I never understood - those people taking flash pictures from the uppoer level of the hockey arena. What do they think they are illuminating from way up there?  |
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Post by sliderocker on Apr 4, 2012 11:38:50 GMT -5
well, regardless when we post youtubes of Linda bootleg concerts or snippets from camera phones here, we'e contributing to the problem some seem to have an issue with. Slide, your points are well-taken. But I think if you go back to the initial post in this thread and look at the video, it probably was not something taken with a cell phone. I don't think you'd get a) the length of an entire song with a cellphone (maybe, but...) and b) I do not think it would have the quality that this video has. Again, as I've said, I've been to performances where someone right next to me has had a camcorder to videotape the entire event. I've not inquired as to the level of their experience. But these things do show up online with regularity. And as Rob said, it is illegal. But so is texting while driving. And there aren't enough law enforcement officers around to ticket everyone who does it. Quite right, the video in question wasn't taken with a cellphone but judging from the video's steadiness - the person with the camera seemed to have a pretty steady hand, no wobbliness and seemed to have a pretty good view, my guess would be the person operated out in the open, and that no security, no police even attempted to stop them. Which suggests that either security was pretty lax or that someone had permission to record or knew how to record the concert without attracting the attention of security. But, I have been to concerts where I've seen the security personnel go nutso over people using their cellphones and who have threatened to confiscate their cellphones if they didn't put them away. Not arresting them because they may legally lack the authority to do so. Likewise, I can't see an entire concert being filmed on a cellphone with either a good quality picture or sound but as I said, the fans doing so aren't doing it with the intention of putting it up on youtube or bootlegging it. It's just a recorded memory of seeing the artist in concert. As to the legality of the no cameras rule, the thing to remember is someone may be saying no cameras or it may be posted no cameras, but a city or state may not actually have any laws prohibiting cameras. It may just be a request or a demand from the management because if there's no such laws in place at the city level (more likely to be city than state because the buildings an artist may perform in are owned by the city), they can't really stop anyone from filming. If there is an ordinance prohibiting something, it's usually posted with the actual ordinance number, at least the ones here are. I don't know whether that's true in other cities and states but here the ordinance number or municipal code - the legal status - is visibly posted. And I've never seen one posted on any sign advising no cameras. |
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Post by mysteryguest on Apr 5, 2012 20:34:21 GMT -5
While most everything being said has merit the fact is in 50 years when Linda and most of us are dead and burried those left will be thankful that these types of films were made and were worth every law being broken, if any to do so.
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