"... or EVEN Linda Ronstadt "

[rick]

Saw this item about the latest single from Madonna's upcoming album.

www.hollywoodnews.com/2012/03/18/oh-madonna-she’s-quite-the-lyricist-“i-f—ed-up-”/

I will just copy and paste the text and boldface the line that relates to Linda and ask others... what does this mean?

Oh, Madonna. She’s quite the lyricist – “I F—ed Up.”

By: Roger Friedman

HollywoodNews.com:

Oh, Madonna. She’s quite the lyricist. Her new song is called “I F—ed Up.” You can listen to it and most of her new album, called “MDNA” on her You Tube channel and on Facebook.

The album comes out a week from Tuesday, and it’s the usual hodgepodge of throwaway dance songs and a couple of ballads that have been Auto-tuned within an inch of their lives. Madonna is almost 54 and she sings, basically, about nothing.

There’s no one to compare her to, really; she is unto herself. You can’t compare her to the great female singer songwriters like Carly, Carole, and Joni. She’s not a great singer like Judy Collins, Phoebe Snow, or Gladys Knight. She’s not an icon like Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, or Aretha Franklin. She’s certainly no Streisand or Diana Ross. She can’t sing like Lady Gaga or Adele or even Linda Ronstadt. But she’s Madonna. She’s a living spectacle. And the PR machine is revving up for a launch at the end of this week. And listen, it’s not about album sales. It’s about tour tickets. The album is just a souvenir. It’s a new, much different world.

[sliderocker]

I read it as a backhanded slap, an insult. I certainly would've placed Linda among the great singers he mentioned or the among the icons, although I'm not sure I'd agree with him on some of his personal choices for a great singer. I think he's a product of his time, the musical snob who thinks the artists he mentioned are great and that they're singers and icons and what have you, and that any other singer falls short. I have to wonder how he would feel if someone wrote that while good songwriters, what have Carly and Carole done in recent times that still makes them great? Or that while Joni is a good songwriter, she can sometimes be pretentious to the point of boredom? Or that Janis Joplin is an icon simply because she died at 27. Would she still have been an icon had she lived, or would she have been another of the forgotten artists of the 60s relegated to performing on the oldies circuit, an artist many of these same critics wished would go away?

Saying Madonna can't sing like Lady Gaga is a laugh as I've heard many disc jockeys joking about the fact that Lady Gaga is basically a cop of Madonna from when she first started out. Much like Marilyn Manson was and is basically a cop of what Alice Cooper did in the 70s. How original is it to borrow someone else's act as your own?

Finally, I have to wonder how many of these same critics would like it if the criticisms were turned on them? Pointing out that as writers, they're not good enough to write the major stories of their newspapers or magazines or to even write novels. That critics are hack clowns because they criticize others for what they're able to do that they can't do. There's nothing wrong with fair criticism, which can include comparing one singer to another. But, to use the criticism as an attack on the artist (or other artists) seems more like a personal attack. You don't like the artist in the first place, what are you doing reviewing their work? Why not move on to someone you truly like? That is, when you can bother to tear yourself away from the mirror?

(To paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt, the only good critic is a dead critic.)

[Deleted]

It was a hard backhand slap... especially compared to LADY GAGA who couldn't even gargle as well as Linda!

[philly]

Yes, faint praise for Linda indeed.

Does seem to be a rather poorly thought out article though, full of afterthoughts, he doesn't include Streisand in the "great" category But it's really nice to know that Linda was even a better singer than Madonna...wow

Curiously, Roger Friedman has said, about the RRHOF, that it's a joke that Donna Summer was nominated before Linda, and even called for a boycott of Rolling Stone (for that and other reasons)

p.s. He couldn't think of anyone to compare Madonna too? How about Britney Spears...talk about a spectacle!

[rick]

Mar 19, 2012 15:56:55 GMT -5 @robertaxel said:

It was a hard backhand slap... especially compared to LADY GAGA who couldn't even gargle as well as Linda!

Thank you, Slide, Philly and Robert.
That is how I read it as well. But I thought maybe I was mis-reading it. While I like Lady Gaga, in small doses, and do believe Adele is talented, Linda can sing circles around both of them.
Part of me is happy to see Linda mentioned, but to do so as a back-handed compliment and to lump her in with Adele and Gaga is just odd.

[erik]

Quote by rick:

While I like Lady Gaga, in small doses, and do believe Adele is talented, Linda can sing circles around both of them.
Part of me is happy to see Linda mentioned, but to do so as a back-handed compliment and to lump her in with Adele and Gaga is just odd.

It is odd, in the sense that, when we talk about Adele and Lady Gaga, we're talking about two wildly different artists and approaches: Adele, who's kind of a British soul singer type, and (I think) very good at what she does; and L.G., who is the ultimate theatrical (borderline X-rated, in my opinion) showgirl. And I totally agree that what Lady Gaga, Britney, and, to some extent, even Christina Aguilera do has its roots in what Madonna did in the 80s. L.G. takes it a step further by wearing meat or coming to the Grammys inside a giant egg, really going the "egg-stra" mile (pardon the pun). Linda is much different from either of those, not only because she comes from a wholly different place and era, but because she doesn't put on a persona; what you see in Linda is real.

Vocal comparisons between singers, however, are inevitable, let's be honest. With respect to Linda's early career, in part because she was working more or less in a folk or folk-rock kind of sound with the Stone Poneys, to me her phrasing and her voice remind me a bit of Joan Baez from roughly that same period of time (1966-68). Of course later on, after Linda had become so ultra-popular, a lot of female artists came along who, in terms of vocal phrasing and/or musical style (usually country-rock), remind a lot of us of Linda herself.

[sliderocker]

Mar 19, 2012 22:55:00 GMT -5 erik said:

It is odd, in the sense that, when we talk about Adele and Lady Gaga, we're talking about two wildly different artists and approaches: Adele, who's kind of a British soul singer type, and (I think) very good at what she does; and L.G., who is the ultimate theatrical (borderline X-rated, in my opinion) showgirl. And I totally agree that what Lady Gaga, Britney, and, to some extent, even Christina Aguilera do has its roots in what Madonna did in the 80s. L.G. takes it a step further by wearing meat or coming to the Grammys inside a giant egg, really going the "egg-stra" mile (pardon the pun). Linda is much different from either of those, not only because she comes from a wholly different place and era, but because she doesn't put on a persona; what you see in Linda is real.

Vocal comparisons between singers, however, are inevitable, let's be honest. With respect to Linda's early career, in part because she was working more or less in a folk or folk-rock kind of sound with the Stone Poneys, to me her phrasing and her voice remind me a bit of Joan Baez from roughly that same period of time (1966-68). Of course later on, after Linda had become so ultra-popular, a lot of female artists came along who, in terms of vocal phrasing and/or musical style (usually country-rock), remind a lot of us of Linda herself.

Whem it came to Linda, especially during the Stone Poneys era, I didn't especially think of her phrasing and voice as being a lot like Joan Baez's voice. Of course, I didn't listen to Joan Baez in those days - she was later for me but even when I did, I still didn't hear that much of an influence. Just here and there, maybe. And the type of folkish songs the SPs were doing may have contributed to the Joan Baez perception, but it wasn't on every one of those songs.

But, Linda was from a time which was far more innocent and if Joan was an influence, she was just that. Linda didn't cop everything Joan did and make it her own, unlike Lady Gaga, who, talented as she is, basically copped whatever Madonna did in the past. If she is to have a long term career, like Madonna has had, she'll have to step away from the persona, the gimmick as otherwise, she'll eventually be regarded as a joke. Of course, if and when she does that, we may see how successful she can be outside of that persona.

[erik]

Mind you, I'm not saying that Linda was deliberately copying Joan's phrasing on her early records; it just seemed to be a strange but happy coincidence.


Quote by sliderocker re. Lady Gaga:

unlike Lady Gaga, who, talented as she is, basically copped whatever Madonna did in the past. If she is to have a long term career, like Madonna has had, she'll have to step away from the persona, the gimmick as otherwise, she'll eventually be regarded as a joke. Of course, if and when she does that, we may see how successful she can be outside of that persona.

I totally agree. Madonna had to step away from the "Material Girl" persona she created in the 80s (and she also had to stop making those atrocious films too) for anyone to take her seriously. Exactly where Lady Gaga can go with ditching these wacky get-ups of hers and still be successful is anyone's guess; and, as you say, it is a question of if and when.

[Alberto Gabriel]

Linda.I just wanted to thank you for all.You remember me?You spent some days on holidays in Blanes (Spain),I have the photo.I have about 15 of your albums."We ran" it´s a great album but too sad.I prefer others like "Don´t cry now",Give back my regards to dolly parton and if you have a problem with an alcoholic call Motley Crue.They will help you.
PS;Did you had an affair with Mick Jagger?

[70smusicfan]

Perhaps the person meant something different (like our parents before us referring to our generation, I believe there has been a decay in the careful use of the english language in the generations after us). Perhaps the person meant "PARTICULARLY" instead of "EVEN" and it was a sincere compliment.

[musicaamator]

I might be the only one that read it as a compliment to Linda's vocals. Madonna definitely cannot match the delivery of Linda, and that is what the author is saying. That's what makes Madonna Madonna, and Linda Linda, etc.

[Deleted]

Jan 7, 2013 7:26:12 GMT -5 musicaamator said:

I might be the only one that read it as a compliment to Linda's vocals. Madonna definitely cannot match the delivery of Linda, and that is what the author is saying. That's what makes Madonna Madonna, and Linda Linda, etc.

Well, that is possible, I suppose, thought I don't see it that way...

[the Scribe]

I think all the women mentioned are special in their own unique way and are not really comparable, not even Madonna. That is why when their first names are mentioned everyone knows who they are. And we know how critics are always stretching for one clever phrase or another. Their diatribes are usually meaningless and eithe please or anger.