Linda barely mentioned again

[MokyWI]

In the latest Rolling Stone there is a rather lengthy article on the group of studio musicans known as The Section. The musicans are Danny Kortchmar, David Lindley, Waddy Wachtel, Craig Doerge, Leland Sklar and Russ Kunkel. These players were all over Ronstadts late 1970's albums. She is mentioned, but in such a way that gives little tip of the hat to her talent, her art, or personality. Browne, Taylor, King, Simon and Zevon are given more time in this lengthy article. The writing centers on the accesses of the time and drug use. Ronstadt I image didn't take part like the "boys" did, but neither did Simon or King. I HOPE it is Linda's doing that she is NOT mentioned more because if she ISN'T the reason, I fear she will soon be forgotten. These young journalists seem to have no interest or real knowledge of just how big Linda Ronstadt was, not to mention her influence on those that came after her. We die hards are getting old, its good to see these new members of the board who are of a younger generation realizing Ronstadt. Look at Nicks and Raitt, why isn't Ronstadt thought of or looked to more...SHE DOES NOT WANT IT! She stopped a tribute album that Andrew Gold was eager to produce with PLENTY of very well known and respected younger artists wanting to take part. Linda Ronstadt learned she didn't want stardom, she walked away from it, and I think she burnt some bridges along the way. I hope her book sheds some light on this situation, why she has been forgotten like she has been. One thing I hope she has written about in the book is the night of the Nicolette Larson Memorial Concert. To see that photo of all the musicans and artists that took part in that evening, Ronstadt being one of them but she is NOT in the photo...that was a real buzz kill. From what I heard, Linda waited to the very last minute to make it to the venue, so late that her assistant had to remove Linda's coat before Ronstadt hit the stage, and the minute her part was over she was driven away. It was the height of her illness, or so it seemed, her kids were young, maybe motherhood and managing her physical energy at that time was the real reason she was in and out and didn't take part in that photo. The picture is WRONG without Ronstadt in it. In it is everyone from the mellow mafia, not only the studio and touring musicians from all those albums, but the artists who recorded them. No Ronstadt? Talk about disappointing, seeing that photo and no Ronstadt in it. I doubt any of them were as close to Nicolette as Ronstadt was, what a SHAME that photo is IMO. Happy Easter everyone!

...talk about sounding negative...I think I need to "check myself, before I wreck myself"...FAMILY and negativity is not a good mix on Easter Sunday.

[erik]

I think it is important not to get in too much of an uproar about this "lack of recognition", Easter Sunday or otherwise. It should still be a fascinating read when the memoir comes out in September, so let's not get too overworked.

[traveller]

Absolutely, Erik. Her career and life have been viewed through everyone's eyes but her own. I'm looking forward to read about what it all looked like through her eyes.

[sliderocker]

I seriously doubt it was Linda's doing as the reason that she was barely mentioned in the Rolling Stone article, but although those guys were all over Linda's recordings, they didn't play on every song she ever recorded like they did on some of the others. That could be one reason why she's not mentioned more in the Rolling Stone article. It could also be that Rolling Stone's Jann Wenner still holds a grudge against Linda for whatever reason and doesn't allow her name to be mentioned very often in his rag. Some of the Section musicians have interesting stories they could probably tell in a book if they so chose. David Lindley is Linda's cousin and I figure any mention of Linda in RS probably came from him. He probably has some tales he could tell about Linda if he ever chose to write a book, although he grew up in Oklahoma to Linda growing up in Arizona, so I'm not sure how often the two saw each other growing up. Russ Kunkel was married to Mama Cass Elliott and to Nicolette Larson, and I think he was married to each of them at the time of their deaths. There was a photo of Kunkel holding Cass's daughter at her funeral. And Craig Doerge wrote or cowrote a few songs in the early 70s, one of which actually did become a hit. Not by him though, or by his cowriter, but by a teen idol. That song was "Cried Like a Baby," the cowriter was Paul Williams and the teen idol was Bobby Sherman. I saw Doerge's name on a few other songs but don't recall any other songs being a hit.

As for Linda not being in the photo the night of the Nicolette Larson Memorial Concert, maybe she had already left when the photo was taken or had yet to arrive, or as you say, it could be she was dealing with her illness or she wanted to get back to her kids. It's also possible that she didn't like some of the musicians and didn't want to hang around with them. A big misconception the public has about musicians is that they are all mellow and they all get along with each other. Sometimes, they do but sometimes, they don't get along. And although I think Linda probably got along very well with most musicians, she has admitted in the past there were some she had issues with, and some musicians who had issues with her (like in taking orders from a female singer). So, as mellow as these musicians may have been, maybe Linda didn't get along with someone in that group and wanted to keep her distance?

[cymru56]

To correct matters Russ Kunkel was previously married to Leah Cohen, Cass Elloitt's sister, not to Mama Cass herself. He did with Leah raise Cass's daughter after her mother's death.

[erik]

In reference to mikekoecher's original post here, I would point out point out that when I mentioned in the Winter Light/We Ran thread how many fans and potential listeners and how much of their trust she lost in the 1990s with her switches from one style to the next , he replied with the following:

I wouldn't waste your time wishing she had continued like she was in the 70's, I have a feeling she is just fine with the way things worked out, and she got to do the music that she always wanted to do in the first place, she just had to make a lot of money for the record company first before she could make what she REALLY WANTED to make, she did, and I think she is pleased with her career and the way things turned out.

Now, because Linda barely gets mentioned in a Rolling Stone article about her old backing musicians known as The Section, he says that she burned some bridges along the way--but when that very thing is pointed out by someone else, he tells them not to "waste their time wishing she had continued on like she was in the 70s" (which is not what I or anyone else has said).

I really have to ask, why the sudden change of heart from one reply on a different thread eight days ago to this thread?

[Pagan Moe]

I really have to ask, why the sudden change of heart from one reply on a different thread eight days ago to this thread?

Religious holidays bring out the worst in many of us.

I glanced through the Rolling Stone article and thought Linda
was fairly represented. They chose "Simple Dreams" as one
of the ten albums representative of the SoCal sound.

[MokyWI]

Erik, RELAX, mindless rambling is no worse than the same postings of the same photos/w guitar in hand, and the same old complaints from you as well, we all repeat ourselves and contradict ourselves...WE HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR 15 YEARS!

[Robert Morse]

Sounds like folks need to take few deep breaths and relax a bit...

I was at the Nicolette concerts....Linda was obviously not there for the entire event as she was not involved in the opening "Lotta Love" number. I either read or maybe Linda herself said at the show that she has been across the street at the hotel taking care of her family. My guess is that it was not a conspiracy to keep her out of the photo but more the fact that she was not in the building.

[Robert Morse]

Mar 31, 2013 13:46:17 GMT -5 traveller said:

Absolutely, Erik. Her career and life have been viewed through everyone's eyes but her own. I'm looking forward to read about what it all looked like through her eyes.

It will be nice to hear her version instead of thousands of fictional tales:)

[jhar26]

Mar 31, 2013 9:55:59 GMT -5 MokyWI said:

I HOPE it is Linda's doing that she is NOT mentioned more because if she ISN'T the reason, I fear she will soon be forgotten. These young journalists seem to have no interest or real knowledge of just how big Linda Ronstadt was, not to mention her influence on those that came after her.

Well, I fear that she already IS forgotten by most 30 and under people. Those with an interest in music from "before their time" are aware of and perhaps even have an album or two by the likes of Janis Joplin, Carole King, Bonnie Raitt, Emmylou Harris, Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell and a few other female artists of the time, but Ronstadt's status has undeniably - and unfairly gone down ever since the mid-90's up to a point where she is now popular music's best kept secret as far as the public at large is concerned. I'm sure that young journalists know how big she was, but they for whatever reason don't rate her that highly from an artistic perspective and merely see her as a Connie Francis or Olivia Newton John type - a lightweight who just happened to have sold a lot of records. How they could be so missguided is beyond me, but that's how it is in my opinion.

[erik]

In response to mikekoecher: I apologize for having flown off the handle yesterday. I'll try to do better.

Onward....

Quote by jhar26:

Well, I fear that she already IS forgotten by most 30 and under people. Those with an interest in music from "before their time" are aware of and perhaps even have an album or two by the likes of Janis Joplin, Carole King, Bonnie Raitt, Emmylou Harris, Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell and a few other female artists of the time, but Ronstadt's status has undeniably - and unfairly gone down ever since the mid-90's up to a point where she is now popular music's best kept secret as far as the public at large is concerned. I'm sure that young journalists know how big she was, but they for whatever reason don't rate her that highly from an artistic perspective and merely see her as a Connie Francis or Olivia Newton John type - a lightweight who just happened to have sold a lot of records. How they could be so missguided is beyond me, but that's how it is in my opinion.

Maybe even worse than the neglect is that on many of those rare times when her name is bought up, it often has to do with the weight gain (which few even bother to inquire on how it really came about), the fact that she got old (you think?), or about how what happened in Vegas didn't stay in Vegas. And again, I also think it has something to do with her somewhat reclusive nature and the fact that she herself hasn't done much to counter these rumors...yet, anyway. Hopefully, the memoir will go at least some way of straightening things out.

As to how young journalists could be so misguided in the way they perceive Linda, it boils down, at least in part, to them either not having time to do their homework before a set deadline, or not doing their homework on Linda, period. And perhaps that's why it does us a lot more good to look to what her own peers have to say. Most of them too lament about the lack of attention towards Linda, but they know the truth and are willing to say it. We just need to look for it (IMHO).

[jhar26]

Apr 1, 2013 9:11:29 GMT -5 erik said:

Maybe even worse than the neglect is that on many of those rare times when her name is bought up, it often has to do with the weight gain (which few even bother to inquire on how it really came about), the fact that she got old (you think?), or about how what happened in Vegas didn't stay in Vegas. And again, I also think it has something to do with her somewhat reclusive nature and the fact that she herself hasn't done much to counter these rumors...yet, anyway. Hopefully, the memoir will go at least some way of straightening things out.

As to how young journalists could be so misguided in the way they perceive Linda, it boils down, at least in part, to them either not having time to do their homework before a set deadline, or not doing their homework on Linda, period. And perhaps that's why it does us a lot more good to look to what her own peers have to say. Most of them too lament about the lack of attention towards Linda, but they know the truth and are willing to say it. We just need to look for it (IMHO).

Part of it may also be that Linda has never been one to blow her own trumpet or even just to say that she's done some great work. There's being modest, but there's also being TOO modest, and Linda falls into the latter category where her own work is concerned.

[the Scribe]

Linda loved to sing and she liked the money but not necessarily all that came with it. She is like the Meryl Streep of the music world, basically a housewife (if that word is appropriate) that acts in her spare time. She doesn't care about the rest and basically has never been that "full" of herself.

[erik]

Quote by jhar26:

Part of it may also be that Linda has never been one to blow her own trumpet or even just to say that she's done some great work. There's being modest, but there's also being TOO modest, and Linda falls into the latter category where her own work is concerned.

I think the more extreme term might be "self deprecating" and maybe she is like that, to a fault. But perhaps it's better than being Madonna, who still thinks of herself as "hot stuff" after thirty years (YIPE!!!)


Quote by ronstadtfanaz:

Linda loved to sing and she liked the money but not necessarily all that came with it. She is like the Meryl Streep of the music world, basically a housewife (if that word is appropriate) that acts in her spare time. She doesn't care about the rest and basically has never been that "full" of herself.

She certainly was never a "party animal", that much. But we may be overstating a touch that she doesn't care about celebrity or that she didn't like the perks. I think she knew what the responsibility that came along with that celebrity was; and on that count, I don't think we can dispute the idea that she acquainted herself quite well and has continued to be an inspiration (press inattentiveness aside [GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE])

[sliderocker]

Mar 31, 2013 19:05:30 GMT -5 cymru56 said:

To correct matters Russ Kunkel was previously married to Leah Cohen, Cass Elloitt's sister, not to Mama Cass herself. He did with Leah raise Cass's daughter after her mother's death.

Thanks for the clarification. I had a reference book at one time which (wrongly) reported Cass and Kunkel as being married. Someone obviously didn't fact check that book before it was published.

[jhar26]

Apr 1, 2013 11:54:56 GMT -5 erik said:

I think the more extreme term might be "self deprecating" and maybe she is like that, to a fault. But perhaps it's better than being Madonna, who still thinks of herself as "hot stuff" after thirty years (YIPE!!!)

Madonna doesn't really have a choice. She can't go stand in front of a microphone (fully dressed) and just sing. She can't really sing well enough to pull it off and besides, fans want their Madonna outrageous. But I don't want to dismiss everything she's ever done. While I dislike most of her work, there are a few albums that I found surprisingly good.

[jhar26]

Apr 1, 2013 10:53:04 GMT -5 the Scribe said:

Linda loved to sing and she liked the money but not necessarily all that came with it. She is like the Meryl Streep of the music world, basically a housewife (if that word is appropriate) that acts in her spare time. She doesn't care about the rest and basically has never been that "full" of herself.

Yes, but I don't think that saying that for example Heart Like a Wheel or Hasten Down the Wind are great albums would mean that she's full of herself. It would just be an objective statement.

[sliderocker]

Maybe even worse than the neglect is that on many of those rare times when her name is bought up, it often has to do with the weight gain (which few even bother to inquire on how it really came about), the fact that she got old (you think?), or about how what happened in Vegas didn't stay in Vegas. And again, I also think it has something to do with her somewhat reclusive nature and the fact that she herself hasn't done much to counter these rumors...yet, anyway. Hopefully, the memoir will go at least some way of straightening things out.

I think the neglect by the news media simply owes to Linda no longer being active as a performer. Look at any celebrity who has retired, been out of the spotlight for a while, and you will find someone who likewise barely gets mentioned in news media of any kind, except for maybe when they die. And maybe not even then. It's less of a forgetting than there's nothing to report on. Linda's memoir should change a little of that, though how much of a change I can't predict.

As to how young journalists could be so misguided in the way they perceive Linda, it boils down, at least in part, to them either not having time to do their homework before a set deadline, or not doing their homework on Linda, period. And perhaps that's why it does us a lot more good to look to what her own peers have to say. Most of them too lament about the lack of attention towards Linda, but they know the truth and are willing to say it. We just need to look for it (IMHO).

I don't see it as young journalists not having the time to do their homework before a set deadline or doing any homework so much as I see it as a case of dumb journalism. They don't report all of the facts so much as they report only a fraction of the facts, and think that's enough to suffice. And, unfortunately, a lot of that is driven from corporate decisions from upstairs, from publishers, editors and CEOs more interested in the bottom line than in factual, hard reporting. Rolling Stain has been no less guilty when it comes to deleting information in their stories and interveiws than any other newspaper and magazine. And they have been doing it all along. It's quite possible Linda could've been mentioned quite a bit in this article but because she is apparently persona non grata with Jann Wenner, references to her could've been excised from the article. As long as there are other ways to get that information though, omissions from one source mean nothing. But, numerous omissions would be something else altogether.

[Richard W]

Many of The Section toured with her over the years as well as playing in the studio, so it would seem Linda could have been a bit more prominent in the article. However, the shout-out to SD is good.

I'm sure Linda did her share of partying on those tour buses with all those male musicians. She's quoted as saying that she swore like a sailor after being with them for extended periods of time, so she obviously wasn't isolated from their influence.

[Dianna]

yeah, I think had Linda wanted to remain in the limelight, she would have done so. Many of her peers, age wise , not only people like The Eagles, Bonnie Raitt, Nicks, Dolly..Smokey Robinson and Stevie Wonder they keep putting themselves out there at almost every event.. they're not making hit records anymore, they don't have to.. I'm sure they love the limelight and being around people performing.. Linda has made comments in thepast, that she pretty much hates touring and that she's happy staying inside the house. She had to do those things early on in her career to be a success.. and when you're real young IMO, the world is an exciting and fun place to be.. but as we grow older our priorities change.. even with age, some continue in limelight but most of us slow down eventually. I also think, many of us fans get a little upset when Linda credit is not given when credit is due..

[JasonKlose]

Apr 1, 2013 15:04:26 GMT -5 Richard W said:

I'm sure Linda did her share of partying on those tour buses with all those male musicians. She's quoted as saying that she swore like a sailor after being with them for extended periods of time, so she obviously wasn't isolated from their influence.

I remember Linda saying something like that in a biography I have of her, and in several magazine articles. I think she said she started to talk like a truck driver and was not as nice to people. But she felt a lot of guilt for being that way, because it's not like her, not her personality. It was also mentioned how Linda got a female friend to travel with her so she had someone to talk to and keep her company while the guys went off and did their thing. I'm sure it had to be very lonely at times for her.

What has always impressed me is how well Linda dealt with her life and career.......how well she held things together despite all the things about the music business that surrounded her. I don't know of too many female artists who handled it any better. I mean look at what she had to deal with. She was a woman in a male-dominated business. She didn't hang out with losers, never got into any trouble with drugs, although she did experiment with them for a time. But who didn't? She said she was never a groupie and didn't want to be with someone who had that mentality. She also had to deal with a lot of sexism and discrimination, because she was a woman. She had to deal with the record companies......the greed, the corruption. So many things. But she came out on top despite all this.

I think a lot of it has to do with her family and the environment she was raised in. She had a wonderful childhood and was raised in a loving, nurturing family. Even throughout her career she remained very close to her parents and her brothers and sister. In fact they are still very close to this day. So I think that has more to do with shaping Linda as a person, more than anything else. And she's still that person today.

I just think Linda is a very blessed person, in more ways than one. Even though I first heard Linda's voice on the radio as a small child, I haven't been a fan for nearly as long as so many people on this forum. Plus I'm not as old as most on here either, so their memories of Linda go back much farther than mine. But I can really appreciate and understand everyone's feelings about Linda, as an artist and as a person. I think we all love Linda because she IS so different, because she IS so unique. I too think it's very sad and upsetting when Linda's name is hardly mentioned or when she doesn't get enough coverage in an article. The same with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. People complain that Linda still hasn't been inducted and that she is continuously snubbed year after year. I don't like it either, but when it really comes down to it, does it really matter all that much? I don't think Linda cares about it, in fact I'd bet that she really doesn't, considering her modesty. Maybe she is too good for the RRHOF. In my opinion she is in a class by herself and is in my own personal hall of fame. I'm sure everyone here feels the same way I do. I actually believe Linda is satisfied with everything she has accomplished. I think I'm learning more and more about her every day, and the more I learn about her the more I love her. I wouldn't change a thing about her.

[Joe From Detroit]

Linda mentioned in the latest Rolling Stone by Billy Joel where he writes about Phil Ramone. I wasn't sure if it was true but LR did tell Billy Joel to put 'Just The Way You Are' on The Stranger. Cool.

[the Scribe]

Apr 11, 2013 23:48:28 GMT -5 @Joe From Detroit said:

Linda mentioned in the latest Rolling Stone by Billy Joel where he writes about Phil Ramone. I wasn't sure if it was true but LR did tell Billy Joel to put 'Just The Way You Are' on The Stranger. Cool.

I think that story turned out to be false about Linda and Phoebe and was about 2 other musical chums but I forgot who.

[Dianna]

I heard Billy Joel himself say Linda encouraged him to put Just the way you are on his album.