Doing a presentation on Ronstadt for a class...

[MokyWI]

I am taking a class called the History of Pop/Rock music from 1920-today. Actually I would say 1950 to present, but we are stepping back to Tin Pan Alley to 1950 a little. I am doing a presentation on Ronstadt. I will be posting the outline of it and I hope you all will give me some input. I have 10-12 minutes and I will need to present portions of some performances. I am doing it the week titled: The Rise of FM Radio/Singer Songwriters/Country Rock. I can't imagine not including her Trio/Nelson Riddle/Mariachi work. I am thinking the albums I will focus on are

Hearl Like A Wheel
Simple Dreams/Living In The USA
Mad Love
What's New with mention of the other two Riddle albums
Trio
Canciones De Mi Padre

[Deleted]

I look forward to reading the outline... I might like to see an earlier album such as Silk Purse or even her self titled one to show her growth, along with a later one such as Cry Like a Rainstorm, Winter Light or even Hummin to Myself... good luck!

[erik]

I'd give strong consideration to Hand Sown, Home Grown, which, as ragged as it is, is still arguably the first female alternative C&W album, and to We Ran, probably the most grossly underappreciated album in her entire canon.

[sliderocker]

If you are covering the Rise of FM/Singer-Songwriters/Country-Rock era, all that basically took place in the early to mid 70s. The albums from the 80s and later would be out of place as FM was firmly established as a force to be reckoned with by the end of the 70s. The very early 70s were considered the era of the singer-songwriter although in the rock era, there had always been singers who wrote their own songs along side singers who relied on covering other people's songs and/or songs written exclusively for them. And a lot of people think country-rock started with the Eagles and even CSN&Y, but its beginnings took place in the 60s with other artists (including Linda) but wouldn't come to full force until the 70s. The Eagles tend to get far too much credit for work that was started by others while Linda tends to get too little credit for her role in country-rock. Be that as it may, I think all of Linda's career deserves a full presentation, from her time with the Stone Poneys (where she was being pushed out to lead singer against her will by the record company and management) to her early solo recordings to her later successes. For someone who didn't want to be a solo artist, she persisted on making it as a solo artist upon being put on that path. Many other acts, whether they were solo artists or a band, threw in the towel if they didn't get continued success right away. Linda had a little success with "Different Drum" and "Long, Long Time," but until "Don't Cry Now" was released and hinted at what was to come with "Heart Like a Wheel," it's remarkable Linda didn't give up herself on continued success during that time. What if it had never happened for her? Fortunately for us, that's a question we don't have to ask.

[MokyWI]

...yeah sliderocker I know all about when country/rock, singer/songwriters, FM Rock were big. I am 46 years old and have been a huge Ronstadt fan since the age of 8 years old. I know the facts. Erik, as far as presenting Handsown, Silk Purse, We Ran, I agree they need mention, but since I have only 10-12 minutes and can only show 3-4 clips of video footage, I don't think using those 3-4 clips on the albums you mentioned would be a good idea. Other albums will get mentioned and cover art shown. I am presenting to a class that is in their 20's. I need to show clips that will grab their attention, get them to go, "I know that song", "I've heard Ronstadt before" since many in this class have very little idea who she is. The clips need to be used for the artist's "high water marks" in their careers. Those albums you listed will get mentioned though. What I have to figure out is how to use the time so I can keep to the theme of the week, FM radio, singer/songwriters/country-rock and still give the full scope of Ronstadt's career. There is no way I can present Ronstadt and NOT do that. Ronstadt is who she is as an artist BECAUSE of her versatility. Just talking about her work in the 1970's would be wrong, and if that is what it HAD to be, I would find another artist. Giving the coutry/rock only of Ronstadt wouldn't be worthy of her IMO. I have to find a way to do both in the time I have but making it fit the theme of that week. Not going to be easy but I will do it.

[erik]

Quote by sliderocker:

Linda had a little success with "Different Drum" and "Long, Long Time," but until "Don't Cry Now" was released and hinted at what was to come with "Heart Like a Wheel," it's remarkable Linda didn't give up herself on continued success during that time. What if it had never happened for her? Fortunately for us, that's a question we don't have to ask.

I think it can be bought down to her own determination to make it work, and to a solid network of friends in the L.A. music scene of the time. What made the going so slow wasn't that she wasn't talented; it's just that Capitol didn't seem to know who they had in her. They tended to think in very narrow terms back then, really one-genre singers or groups; and Linda, who tended to have elements of folk, country, rock, and R&B in everything she did, was obviously not a one-genre woman. When she jumped ship and signed with David Geffen's Asylum label in June 1972, though, she was in a better position. All of her friends (Jackson; the Eagles; Joni Mitchell) were there, and Geffen had known her from as far back as 1968, so he knew how to promote her. It was a slow process, sure, but it gave her a solid footing in the end. And although Linda really found it a struggle at first to deal with the massive success that came for her in 1974-75, she eventually decided to stop worrying and start appreciating.

[MokyWI]

Robert, Those albums you mentioned will be touched on and cover art shown. When I used the word focus what I really meant was using those albums as the ones I pull live footage for the clips I present. We are to use the video clips we show for the highlights in the artists career. How could I not mention the Linda Ronstadt album? That is when I will bring in The Eagles to her story.

[Dianna]

Jan 19, 2012 11:18:53 GMT -5 sliderocker said:

If you are covering the Rise of FM/Singer-Songwriters/Country-Rock era, all that basically took place in the early to mid 70s. The albums from the 80s and later would be out of place as FM was firmly established as a force to be reckoned with by the end of the 70s. The very early 70s were considered the era of the singer-songwriter although in the rock era, there had always been singers who wrote their own songs along side singers who relied on covering other people's songs and/or songs written exclusively for them. And a lot of people think country-rock started with the Eagles and even CSN&Y, but its beginnings took place in the 60s with other artists (including Linda) but wouldn't come to full force until the 70s. The Eagles tend to get far too much credit for work that was started by others while Linda tends to get too little credit for her role in country-rock. Be that as it may, I think all of Linda's career deserves a full presentation, from her time with the Stone Poneys (where she was being pushed out to lead singer against her will by the record company and management) to her early solo recordings to her later successes. For someone who didn't want to be a solo artist, she persisted on making it as a solo artist upon being put on that path. Many other acts, whether they were solo artists or a band, threw in the towel if they didn't get continued success right away. Linda had a little success with "Different Drum" and "Long, Long Time," but until "Don't Cry Now" was released and hinted at what was to come with "Heart Like a Wheel," it's remarkable Linda didn't give up herself on continued success during that time. What if it had never happened for her? Fortunately for us, that's a question we don't have to ask.

Good luck, 10-12 min sounds like sufficient time.. I had 3-5 min on a presentation to do last semester, granted the disease topic from my trends in healthcare class I had to research for wasn't as exciting as Linda!

well, yes, glad she didn't give up like you say but, back when Linda made it really big, circa 74-75, her songs were contemporary at the time, playing along side the eagles, so at the time it was pretty significant which direction musically she was heading.. .. she sort of spread her wings later on and went in other directions.. .. yeah, it would be hard to cover ronstadt w/o addressing the different styles of music she has done and successful to boot.

[Richard W]

Mike, what a fun project! Given your time limit and the theme (The Rise of FM Radio/Singer Songwriters/Country Rock), I'd stick with Linda's '70s albums, especially DCN, HLAW, HDTTW, and SD, with the following video clips from each: Silver Threads, You're No Good, That'll Be the Day, and Tumblin' Dice. Those songs nicely encapsulate her country/rock, r&b, classic rock and rock and roll styles. (Of course, Desperado could fit in there, too, as representative of her country/rock ballad prowess.)

I think a brief coda on her later work in other genres will amply demonstrate the depth and breadth of her artistry and where she went from where you left off.

[Guest]

You may want to consider showing a clip of Linda's appearance in the 1978 movie FM which may somehow be worked into your presentation theme. Just a thought.

[sliderocker]

Jan 19, 2012 13:33:55 GMT -5 erik said:

I think it can be bought down to her own determination to make it work, and to a solid network of friends in the L.A. music scene of the time. What made the going so slow wasn't that she wasn't talented; it's just that Capitol didn't seem to know who they had in her. They tended to think in very narrow terms back then, really one-genre singers or groups; and Linda, who tended to have elements of folk, country, rock, and R&B in everything she did, was obviously not a one-genre woman. When she jumped ship and signed with David Geffen's Asylum label in June 1972, though, she was in a better position. All of her friends (Jackson; the Eagles; Joni Mitchell) were there, and Geffen had known her from as far back as 1968, so he knew how to promote her. It was a slow process, sure, but it gave her a solid footing in the end. And although Linda really found it a struggle at first to deal with the massive success that came for her in 1974-75, she eventually decided to stop worrying and start appreciating.

Going by memory of the interviews Linda gave in the 70s, I recall she mentioned not being very confident in herself as a solo performer and didn't want to be out in front in the Stone Poneys, but that Capitol and her management pushed her out front and pushed Kenny and Bob into the background. Capitol recognized Linda was going to be a big star but they didn't have anything set up to get the wheels in motion. By that, meaning their A&R department wasn't sending previously unheard songs her way they might have had at their disposal that she might've been interested in recording. Her management likewise was of little to no help in this regard and Linda was left to fend for herself in finding original material.

Linda was like a lot of Capitol artists who might've been lucky to have had an original song or two (supplied by others) on their albums sitting amidst a large group of covers. I recall one country duo (husband and wife) my mom had in her record collection who were on Capitol but whose recordings never had one single song that was previously unheard. All covers. And my guess is their sales never exceeded 20,000 copies. And 20,000 would've been pushing it. Capitol's s.o.p. seemed to be for their non-writing artists to record the hits everyone else was having. No need to go to any great lengths in finding original material.

[erik]

Quote by sliderocker:

Her management likewise was of little to no help in this regard and Linda was left to fend for herself in finding original material.

At the time in question (1969-70), Linda was being managed by Herb Cohen, who was also managing Frank Zappa and Alice Cooper, and who really didn't get her either. Her desire to record a fair amount of C&W-style material just didn't sit well with him, and he told her as much: "Country music...don't be stupid! You're too country for pop, and too pop for country; you'll end up going nowhere!"

And although it is true that she was left to fend for herself in finding what she wanted to record, she did find a good amount of it. "Long, Long Time" was actually thrown her way while she paid a visit to Greenwich Village in 1969 and met David Bromberg, Jerry Jeff Walker, and Gary White (who wrote the song). Her versions of "The Only Mama That'll Walk The Line" and "Break My Mind" may be crude by today's standards, but they are also genuinely fine examples of West Coast honky-tonk C&W/rock. And there are numerous other examples of this. It wasn't that she wasn't trying; on the contrary, she was so far ahead of everybody else...including her own abilities.

[rick]

Jan 18, 2012 12:59:37 GMT -5 MokyWI said:

I am taking a class called the History of Pop/Rock music from 1920-today. Actually I would say 1950 to present, but we are stepping back to Tin Pan Alley to 1950 a little.
Hearl Like A Wheel
Simple Dreams/Living In The USA
Mad Love
What's New with mention of the other two Riddle albums
Trio
Canciones De Mi Padre

Mike, one of the things that occurred to me is that in addition to showing clips of Linda singing in performance, it might also be nice, if possible, to show Linda in her own words. I believe it was during Linda's appearance on "The Tonight Show With Johnny Carson" in 1986 when Carson was interviewing Linda. I somehow believe that she had just taped/filmed the "Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll" concert/tribute to Chuck Berry. And somehow the topic came up about whether she prefers singing the standards or rock 'n' roll. And I wish I could quote Linda verbatim, but she tells Carson something to the effect that there was this continuum and that rock 'n' roll did transition out of that Tin Pan Alley tradition and says that Chuck Berry just didn't sprout out of the head of Zeus. I think her knowledge in that conversation and others subsequent to that show the depth of her knowledge of music. It might be a nice clip to show since you are wanting to bring in "What's New?"
I tried to find the clip on YouTube but was not successful.
Anyway, just a suggestion.
I know you don't plan to touch on "Winter Light," but I remember when she performed in the 90s and would sing "Too Soon To Know" from "Winter Light" that she would mention that music historians cite it as one of the examples of a song pf the time when standards were transitioning to rock 'n' roll.

[sliderocker]

Jan 22, 2012 0:53:12 GMT -5 erik said:

At the time in question (1969-70), Linda was being managed by Herb Cohen, who was also managing Frank Zappa and Alice Cooper, and who really didn't get her either. Her desire to record a fair amount of C&W-style material just didn't sit well with him, and he told her as much: "Country music...don't be stupid! You're too country for pop, and too pop for country; you'll end up going nowhere!"

And although it is true that she was left to fend for herself in finding what she wanted to record, she did find a good amount of it. "Long, Long Time" was actually thrown her way while she paid a visit to Greenwich Village in 1969 and met David Bromberg, Jerry Jeff Walker, and Gary White (who wrote the song). Her versions of "The Only Mama That'll Walk The Line" and "Break My Mind" may be crude by today's standards, but they are also genuinely fine examples of West Coast honky-tonk C&W/rock. And there are numerous other examples of this. It wasn't that she wasn't trying; on the contrary, she was so far ahead of everybody else...including her own abilities.

Cohen being her manager and Zappa's manager explains something I read about Linda and Frank doing a TV commercial together in the 60s. I thought Zappa was weird - wonderfully, beautifully weird - but the two of them just working together doing that seemed really out there. Not that I wouldn't have had any trouble seeing and hearing Linda's voice in a commercial but Frank Zappa just didn't seem the type to be doing TV commercials. Of course, the fact is, Zappa, for all of his weirdness, wasn't really that weird. He just gave the impression.

Cohen really didn't get Linda, did he? Linda knew what she wanted to do, musically and while I doubt Cohen was paying homage to Col. Parker, his focus should've been on helping Linda achieve her goals, not berating those choices. And while I think a manager's job includes offering advice to an artist about their career, their number one goal should be to help that artist achieve what they way want.

As for Linda's musical choices, she truly did all right for herself most of the time. In my teens and early 20s, I used to wish that she had found a thousand "Long, Long Time"s but then I realized had she done just that, "Long, Long Time" wouldn't be the special song that it is. It truly seems to be Linda singing from the heart, I think, and wouldn't surprise me that she was thinking of someone who had wounded her in love when she laid down her vocal for the song. It will be interesting to read in her autiobiography what she has to say about the song or any of her songs as to whether she connected to those songs emotionally. Then again, she may not cover her personal life at all in her auto-bio, just her professional life.

[MokyWI]

rick I was thinking of that very same clip, and I can't find it either. If anyone has the clip rick mentioned please let me know how and where I could download it. (I always remember he giving the Zeus comment on the Today Show, but I could be wrong) It would be perfect for my presentation. I want to use a clip of her talking about music. Winter Light is one of my favorite albums and I prefer it over CLAR. I have to be honest, yesterday I started thinking I might find someone else to do the presentation on. I am a bit overwhelmed at times when I try and work it out in my head. How do I present her high marks as far as her popularity and still present the projects that moved me the most when the two are often not the same for me. I also want to point out the supporting vocal work she as done on other's hits. Presenting only her hits/covers is something I won't do, if it has to be that, then I will find another artist.

[Dianna]

Mike, ''the clip you are referring to is on "The Linda Ronstadt Download Center" Under Videos, Tonight Show and conversation with Linda..
www.lindaronstadt.com/files/1986TonightShow.html

[rick]

Jan 22, 2012 14:29:30 GMT -5 Dianna said:

Mike, ''the clip you are referring to is on "The Linda Ronstadt Download Center" Under Videos, Tonight Show and conversation with Linda..
www.lindaronstadt.com/files/1986TonightShow.html

Dianna (Lucy!), that is exactly the clip. In segment # 3, in her interview with Johnny Carson, she has that great line about how people THINK they know where rock 'n' roll came from, rather than it being this continuum.
In watching this again, despite her appealing girlishness, she seemed very confident here.
Thanks for posting this, Dianna.

[MokyWI]

I don't think that was the interview I was remembering, I think she made the zeus comment in another interview as well. I am thinking it was on a Today Show interview, I could be wrong though. I don't remember seeing this episode of Carson before but I know I saw her give the zeus comment on TV in an interview. Maybe I just don't remember this episode. There are some Today Show interviews I can't find anywhere. Thanks for posting this link. I might use it.

[Dianna]

Jan 22, 2012 16:40:17 GMT -5 rick said:

Jan 22, 2012 14:29:30 GMT -5 Dianna said:

Mike, ''the clip you are referring to is on "The Linda Ronstadt Download Center" Under Videos, Tonight Show and conversation with Linda..
www.lindaronstadt.com/files/1986TonightShow.html

Dianna (Lucy!), that is exactly the clip. In segment # 3, in her interview with Johnny Carson, she has that great line about how people THINK they know where rock 'n' roll came from, rather than it being this continuum.
In watching this again, despite her appealing girlishness, she seemed very confident here.
Thanks for posting this, Dianna.

you're welcome !!! What I like about Linda is she comes off as cutsey and girlish.. but also very professional and lady boss smart and serious too...

[bassreeves1]

There should just be a class in Linda Ronstadt.

[karenf]

wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Remington_Electric_Razor


info about the aforementioned Ronstadt/Zappa commercial

[wdcats]

Never saw that ad before, real freaky like Zappa his self!