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Post by rick on Nov 21, 2012 2:36:26 GMT -5
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Post by erik on Nov 21, 2012 10:10:52 GMT -5
Such a great pairing of Linda and Smokey just points out how welcoming the Motown stable of artists were with Linda's covers of their material (even if it was only for three songs).
And it further points out how asinine it is for those critics (Dave Marsh most prominent among them) to have the unmitigated gall to suggest that a white (and half-Mexican) "chick" like Linda shouldn't be doing R&B songs.
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Post by the Scribe on Nov 21, 2012 11:18:44 GMT -5
Every time I see that I worry she is going to fall down those damn steps. (I know I would've)
I am reminded about Robin Quivers negative comments about Linda singing "black" songs. If they were so terrible one would have to wonder why she was invited to one of the best tribute shows to "black" music? Too bad he turned her down for the duet on CLARHLTW "I Need You." It was one of the most fun songs on that album.
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Post by revin2go on Nov 24, 2012 23:36:10 GMT -5
I wonder if Linda caught a glimpse of the infamous Supremes' confrontation at Motown 25!
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Post by the Scribe on Nov 25, 2012 0:57:23 GMT -5
I wonder if Linda caught a glimpse of the infamous Supremes' confrontation at Motown 25! What was the confrontation about? Top billing? |
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Post by Dianna on Nov 27, 2012 11:42:12 GMT -5
Thanks for that memory!! We used to have that show on tape.. I would always ffwd to Linda and Smokey then MJ then Diana Ross and the supremes.. which was kind of lacking but I loved watching their interaction..marvin gaye. I can't remember the rest of the show maybe J j walker.. shotgun.. I'd love to have a good dvd copy of motown 25. I'm sure it's avail on amazon or ebay.
revin- there had to have been, that performace was awful and forced..didn't miss ross have a mint in mouth the entire time.. ?
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Post by rick on Nov 27, 2012 11:54:27 GMT -5
I wonder if Linda caught a glimpse of the infamous Supremes' confrontation at Motown 25! What was the confrontation about? Top billing? RonstadtFan, the "billing" of Diana Ross and The Supremes occurred in 1967. It was one of the many things that Florence Ballard was unhappy about and she slid further into alcoholism, missing gigs (and, ironically, her substitute at performances was none other than Cindy Birdsong, who would later replace Ballard). Diana Ross and The Supremes last performed together at The Frontier Hotel in Las Vegas (there was an album, later CD, called "Farewell," chronicling that last concert). When Motown 25 took place, people were looking forward to seeing Diana Ross and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong (poor Flo died in 1976) together on stage again. I believe Mary and Cindy thought they would be singing the entire song together, but Ross invited others onto the stage pretty quickly. In the original airing, you can see Diana Ross visibly shove Mary Wilson. In subsequent edits, that move has been removed. Here is a recap from Entertainment Weekly -- www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,309124,00.html As for Linda, I would guess that conflict would not be her cup of tea and she would have steered clear of it. Linda's recordings of Motown hits were "Tracks of My Tears" and "Ooh Baby Baby," two hits for Smokey Robinson and The Miracles, and then "Heatwave," a hit for Martha Reeves and The Vandellas. We have seen here on the forum a bootleg of the old Brenda Holloway song "Every Little Bit Hurts," too. (Every time I hear Smokey and The Miracles' "Tears of a Clown," I can hear what Linda's version might have sounded like in my head.) |
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Post by the Scribe on Nov 27, 2012 16:16:35 GMT -5
I don't recall the bootleg of Every Little Bit Hurts. I am sure the link is long gone.
Sounds like Miss Diana Ross is a prima dona diva type. Too bad.
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Post by erik on Nov 27, 2012 18:53:13 GMT -5
Quote by ronstadtfanaz re. Diana Ross:
To a large extent, this is true. But I think she was also egged on by Motown chieftain Berry Gordy, because he had primed Ross as a solo artist for a while already, and the other Supremes really resented the star trip both she and Gordy were pulling on them. Proof that even female groups are no more immune from egos and star trips than their male counterparts (IMHO).
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Post by Dianna on Nov 27, 2012 20:38:39 GMT -5
And it further points out how asinine it is for those critics (Dave Marsh most prominent among them) to have the unmitigated gall to suggest that a white (and half-Mexican) "chick" like Linda shouldn't be doing R&B songs. He said that? Wonder what he thought of her mariachi stuff? . Reminds me of my moms favorite saying in spanish:Se cae mas pronto un hablador que un cojo. which means, a big mouth falls faster than one who limps. |
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Post by erik on Nov 27, 2012 21:01:06 GMT -5
Quote by dianna re. Dave Marsh's negative opinion of Linda's Motown covers:
He implied as much in his review of Prisoner In Disguise in Rolling Stone in the fall of 1975. In fact, he has never hidden his utter contempt for Linda, nor his utter genuflection for all things Springsteen.
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Post by Dianna on Nov 27, 2012 23:21:18 GMT -5
well, I don't have anything against the boss... but I'd like to hear him sing, "Crucifijo de Piedra." I did read the 75 review.. lol.. again, nothing against bruce.. wonder if he'd use the same terms here.. it borders on hysteria.. or... it is difficult to imagine anything sillier than Springsteen singing spanish in the first place or ...notably inferior... .. ha ha.. I'm just being as petty as that old review of PID.. He clearly does not like her..
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Post by sliderocker on Nov 28, 2012 5:56:03 GMT -5
When Motown 25 took place, people were looking forward to seeing Diana Ross and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong (poor Flo died in 1976) together on stage again.
I believe Mary and Cindy thought they would be singing the entire song together, but Ross invited others onto the stage pretty quickly. In the original airing, you can see Diana Ross visibly shove Mary Wilson. In subsequent edits, that move has been removed.
Mary Wilson chronicled the shoving incident in her autobiography, "Dream Girls: My Life As A Supreme." I believe Wilson said Ross was trying to push her out of the production altogether by inviting everyone to join her onstage and the subsequently actually and intentionally shoving her.
I think they made up at some point only to be at odds yet again, when it was announced the Supremes would get back together for a tour. I'm not sure what happened but the plan was for Ross and Wilson and I think Birdsong to tour but it ended up being Ross and two 70s-members of the Supremes, in essence, a new version of the Supremes. The new Supremes didn't take off with the public as I recall and I believe the subsequent tour was scaled back and then dropped altogether.
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Post by erik on Nov 28, 2012 9:59:13 GMT -5
Quote by dianna:
I wouldn't worry about El Jefe (The Boss) doing "Crucifijo"; I just can't picture him singing that.
In my opinion, however, Marsh clearly is the rock critic definition of the term "slanted and biased" for his slobbering praise of Springsteen and his universal hate for basically everything Linda has ever done, especially her Motown covers (all three of them!). Mind you, I don't necessarily like everything Linda has ever done, or agree with what she has said in public, and I don't make any bones about it. But nobody can tell me with a straight face that everything that the Boss has ever done has been a masterpiece from start to finish, especially not Dave Marsh.
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Post by the Scribe on Nov 28, 2012 11:53:52 GMT -5
Was Springsteen on Motown 25?
I rest my case.
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Post by rick on Nov 28, 2012 12:49:43 GMT -5
When Motown 25 took place, people were looking forward to seeing Diana Ross and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong (poor Flo died in 1976) together on stage again.
I believe Mary and Cindy thought they would be singing the entire song together, but Ross invited others onto the stage pretty quickly. In the original airing, you can see Diana Ross visibly shove Mary Wilson. In subsequent edits, that move has been removed.Mary Wilson chronicled the shoving incident in her autobiography, "Dream Girls: My Life As A Supreme." I believe Wilson said Ross was trying to push her out of the production altogether by inviting everyone to join her onstage and the subsequently actually and intentionally shoving her. I think they made up at some point only to be at odds yet again, when it was announced the Supremes would get back together for a tour. I'm not sure what happened but the plan was for Ross and Wilson and I think Birdsong to tour but it ended up being Ross and two 70s-members of the Supremes, in essence, a new version of the Supremes. The new Supremes didn't take off with the public as I recall and I believe the subsequent tour was scaled back and then dropped altogether. Slide, Diana Ross and Mary Wilson have had a prickly (to say the least) relationship for years. When Mary's son died, it was said that Ross was very good to Wilson and her family. But then it was announced that The Supremes (Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong) were reuniting for a concert tour called "Return to Love." I can actually see both sides of this. Evidently, Ross demanded that she be paid more than Wilson and Birdsong. To be honest, most people out there know who Diana Ross is. If you said the names Mary Wilson and / or Cindy Birdsong to them, they'd say, "Who?" So, the draw was that Diana Ross was reuniting with the group as it was when she left the group in January 1970. When Wilson balked at the low-ball salary, Birdsong sided with Wilson, and, then, according to Mary Wilson, Ross went and negotiated contracts with Lynda Laurence and Scherrie Payne, who had been members of the Supremes in the 1970s, after Ross had left the group. So, it was no longer a reunion since they had never sung together before. I actually bought tickets to take my sister for the show in L.A.. But, yes, with it not being a true Supremes' reunion, interest and ticket sales flagged, the tour was canceled abruptly and it never came here to L.A. I believe Ross and Wilson both shot themselves in the feet. They should've come to terms. I doubt there will ever be a Supremes' reunion now. The time came and went. |
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Post by sliderocker on Nov 28, 2012 15:09:13 GMT -5
Slide, Diana Ross and Mary Wilson have had a prickly (to say the least) relationship for years. When Mary's son died, it was said that Ross was very good to Wilson and her family. But then it was announced that The Supremes (Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong) were reuniting for a concert tour called "Return to Love."
I can actually see both sides of this. Evidently, Ross demanded that she be paid more than Wilson and Birdsong. To be honest, most people out there know who Diana Ross is. If you said the names Mary Wilson and / or Cindy Birdsong to them, they'd say, "Who?" So, the draw was that Diana Ross was reuniting with the group as it was when she left the group in January 1970. When Wilson balked at the low-ball salary, Birdsong sided with Wilson, and, then, according to Mary Wilson, Ross went and negotiated contracts with Lynda Laurence and Scherrie Payne, who had been members of the Supremes in the 1970s, after Ross had left the group. So, it was no longer a reunion since they had never sung together before. I actually bought tickets to take my sister for the show in L.A.. But, yes, with it not being a true Supremes' reunion, interest and ticket sales flagged, the tour was canceled abruptly and it never came here to L.A.
I believe Ross and Wilson both shot themselves in the feet. They should've come to terms. I doubt there will ever be a Supremes' reunion now. The time came and went.
I recall the part about Diana Ross being very god to Mary Wilson when her son passed, and wasn't Mary Wilson also involved in a car accident or something which resulted in her being hospitalized? I seem to recall Ross was there as well, or maybe I'm misremembering events?
When it comes to the general public - the fair weather fans who only know Diana Ross as the voice of the Supremes, I could see their reaction being Mary Who? and Cindy Who? But, for those who followed the Supremes or who were around in the 60s knew who they were. I could see Diana Ross's point: she was the voice that took the Supremes to the top. But, I could see Mary Wilson's point too: she and the late Florence Ballard, and then Cindy Birdsong, had been pushed into the background by Berry Gordy Jr. because of his desire to make Ross the star of the group and with the fans. They had wanted their chance to shine and be the star but Gordy had denied that to them.
And I think part of another reason for Wilson and Birdsong wanting more money as well was because they may never have received all of the royalties Motown owed them. Gordy was notorious for keeping the royalties and then paying his acts and songwriters a weekly salary, maintaining he was looking out for their interest. He made an exception for Ross but with Wilson and Ballard (and then Birdsong), he paid them a weekly salary, rather than paying them their full royalties and letting them manage their own money as they saw fit. I recall the Motown songwriting team of Holland-Dozier-Holland ultimately ended up suing Berry and Motown just to get the royalties they were owed. They didn't buy into Berry's "I know what's best for you" BS of keeping their royalties and paying them a weekly salary.
And while Ross and Wilson should've found a middle ground in working together, maybe it just wasn't possible. One would think there could've been enough money and that it shouldn't have been a problem. But, it sounds more like it was a clashing of the egos and the money became the excuse for not working together. Likewise, I don't believe there will be another chance for a Supremes reunion, yet as long as Ross, Wilson and Birdsong are still living, there's a chance it could happen, although would the interest be there for 70-year old Supremes?
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markm
A Number and a Name
Posts: 47
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Post by markm on Nov 28, 2012 17:45:37 GMT -5
Actually, Ross didn't shove Mary Wilson while they were singing: as they were calling Berry Gordy to the stage, she shoved the mic down from Wilson's mouth and told her: "It's taken care of." Also, during Someday We'll Be Together, Wilson also started to sing the lead and it became such a mess (it's spliced together in the DVD, as it was when first aired, but you can tell it's all off), that Smokey & everyone came out. (A lot of this is in both Mary's book and J. Randy Taraborelli's). It really is a shame because that moment should have been the pinnacle of the whole special: no one brought any musical arrangements for the planned hits medley (I believe Ross was supposed to, so that killed that as well). To make matters worse, Wilson and Birdsong were told to enter that night's event from a different direction and when they found out they went to the actual red carpet (the Supremes had to crash a Motown event--really, it's unbelievable). Also, Ross told the other two to wear white: you can see what Wilson thought of that, 13 years later, and showed up in red. As they start singing, you see Ross glance back at the other two: then she moves up ahead of them. Wilson looks over at Birdsong ("I told you so" expression), and then they also move up; and then apparently it happened again, and then it all fell apart. Lots of years of rancor and bitterness building up there. Yet, oddly, when Gordy hugs Wilson (which you do see on tape) he whispers in her ear: "You finally learned how to sing." (He's another piece of work, as much as I admire him). Here's an interview I did with Mary Wilson a few years ago. Mary is very down to earth and does not speak ill of the Supremes--though she definitely has "issues." Listening to some of the early stuff that's been released, you can hear that both she and Flo should have had huge careers. It's a shame (and in Flo's case, a tragedy). www.popentertainment.com/marywilson.htm |
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Post by revin2go on Nov 30, 2012 2:55:40 GMT -5
I always found it interesting that many Linda fans are also Supremes fans. In another area, who do you think designed that dress that Linda is wearing during Motown 25? It's very European in style and undoubtedly cost a pretty penny. It's exquisite, really. Linda was certainly at the top of her game, fashion-wise, here in this clip. I guess she knew Diana Ross was in the house and had to step up her game!
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Post by erik on Nov 30, 2012 9:54:55 GMT -5
Linda has always had respect for the Motown sound, even if her renditions of their material differ widely from the originals. And yes, she does look good in that dress. I don't know if Diana Ross' being in the house had a whole lot to do with it, however.
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Post by Dianna on Nov 30, 2012 11:10:57 GMT -5
Yes, the little black dress was very nice, esp with Linda's very white skin and dark hair. I would have liked to have seen some chunky sparkling jewels loaned out to Linda.lol I don't know if Diana Ross had anything to do with Linda stepping it up either, The entire show was almost black tie, I think she had fun with playing dress up,. If you look around that time period Linda was pretty stylish and wore some beautiful things.
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Post by musicaamator on Dec 11, 2012 14:39:14 GMT -5
Linda looked and sang beautifully in that clip. Always loved her renditions of Smokey's songs.
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