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Post by erik on Feb 8, 2018 10:07:04 GMT -5
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Post by the Scribe on Feb 8, 2018 11:40:50 GMT -5
Maybe this comment is out of place but I have to air it. Not to diminish anything Peter Asher has meant to Linda but once again John Boylan is left in the shadows of creditland. I say that because of his life long efforts (including producing her eponymous album Linda Ronstadt and hatching the Eagles with Linda) and support for Linda's career which is evident even today with her speaking tour. Always in the shadows yet always the trouper. What a guy! And he produced some of the most iconic music of the day including Boston's More than A Feeling and a slew of hits for The Little River Band. His efforts also included bringing Linda to Peter Asher and he also played on Heart Like A Wheel.
www.benmclane.com/boylan.htm
www.discogs.com/artist/207027-John-Boylan
Recently, Elon Musk sent a new Tesla automobile into space. Heart Like A Wheel is one of the few albums that should have been honored in it's music box. It is that good. Talk about becoming a star.
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Post by erik on Feb 8, 2018 13:10:03 GMT -5
In my opinion, it just may be that both John Boylan and Peter Asher are reluctant to hog the credit for having "made" Linda the star she became, because it just seems to give rise to the implication (made on and off over the decades by some at a certain rock music publication owned by Jann Wenner) that they were her Svengalis and she was just a singing stick. We know, as do both Boylan and Asher, that this is not at all the case.
If anyone deserves any credit for Linda's stardom, it would be Linda herself, even if she too is reluctant to admit to it.
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Post by the Scribe on Feb 8, 2018 13:35:29 GMT -5
Given Linda's penchant for being overly critical of herself and her talent I can't help but wonder if it weren't a John Boylan or Peter Asher that not only gave her confidence in herself but kept her focused and successful in her professional life so she could focus on her personal life and issues she needed to conquer. None of them, not even Linda seems to want credit for her very successful career. It didn't just happen by itself. Linda would be the first to admit she stood on the shoulders of giants to get where she ended up. It certainly has been quite a journey for all of us (yes, even us) who bought her records, attended her concerts, requested her music on the radio and spread the word. It takes a village when you think of it but of course, without Linda's talent everything else would be moot career wise but her own persona and personality was very special on its own without the talent and she would have made her mark in other ways.
elon musk live starman link:
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Post by MokyWI on Feb 8, 2018 15:00:13 GMT -5
Another thing I have to get, the 180 gram V LP. I like your last post on this thread ronstadfanaz. It really has been quite a journey following her so closely since the age of ten, now fifty-two. So many shows, amazing music, and Linda teaching most of us about someone or some type of music we would otherwise never been exposed to.
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Post by sliderocker on Feb 11, 2018 20:42:14 GMT -5
Given Linda's penchant for being overly critical of herself and her talent I can't help but wonder if it weren't a John Boylan or Peter Asher that not only gave her confidence in herself but kept her focused and successful in her professional life so she could focus on her personal life and issues she needed to conquer. None of them, not even Linda seems to want credit for her very successful career. It didn't just happen by itself. Linda would be the first to admit she stood on the shoulders of giants to get where she ended up. It certainly has been quite a journey for all of us (yes, even us) who bought her records, attended her concerts, requested her music on the radio and spread the word. It takes a village when you think of it but of course, without Linda's talent everything else would be moot career wise but her own persona and personality was very special on its own without the talent and she would have made her mark in other ways.To some degree, I believe Linda being overly critical of herself had to do with the fact much of her music wasn't original, that she took it to heart the fact she wasn't a songwriter. Kenny and Bob wrote songs in the Stone Poneys but never with her. Did it ever occur to them to include her in the writing sessions? When she became a solo artist (against her will), it seemed like the person who was managing her was an absentee manager. In that she was choosing the songs she would record, but there was nothing in her early solo days that suggested whoever she had for a manager and Capitol, went about searching for original songs for her to record or asking her if she could write some of her songs or if she could write songs. Capitol's whole idea of their artists recording was to record songs other had already done and had hits on. That's not a good recipe for success at all. I saw quite a few albums by artists from the same time when Linda was signed to Capitol in which every artist recorded the same songs. Made you want to go "Huh?" Linda might have felt differently if she hadn't been stuck with recording songs others had already done, in some cases, hundreds of times. Given Linda wasn't recording two or three new albums a year, as some other artists were doing in the 60s and 70s, she would've had plenty of time to sift through demo recordings if her management had accepted songs previously unrecorded by others. She should also have been encouraged to write at least one or two songs per album. And I would also have asked Capitol if they truly believed in Linda, as they seemed to believe in her, why were they not willing to spend more money to get a better recording from Linda? And promote her in the way she needed to be promoted? On Linda's albums, it didn't sound like Capitol spent quite a bit of money on them. And if Linda felt she didn't give her best on her recordings, it's likely money was the reason there wasn't time to re-do a vocal. She didn't have the money, like Elvis did, to re-record a song to get it right. Her comment in her book about how she couldn't afford Elvis' guitarist, James Burton, suggests that finances may have been part of the problem. It does make me wonder how Emmylou could afford James Burton, Ronnie Tutt and Glen D. Hardin, all from Elvis' band, when she was starting out? All three were high priced session players and not everyone could afford their services. Burton and Tutt remained with Elvis to his end days, even as they were working with Emmy. And it also points to the possibility Emmy received enough of an advance from Warners for her to be able to hire Burton, Tutt and Hardin to be in her band. Burton was making $3,000 a week with Elvis on the road and in the studio. He was also on retainer with Elvis when he wasn't working with him. If Linda didn't like the sound of her recordings and her singing, would she have felt better about them if Capitol had forked a little more money so that she could've hired James Burton or other high quality session players? Or to re-record a vocal, if she felt she didn't give it her best? |
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Post by eddiejinnj on Feb 12, 2018 7:39:10 GMT -5
In retrospect, I agree, slide, that Capitol was not the right label for Linda. You brought up the Kimmel/Edwards writing sessions and I never really thought of it that they should have included Linda in the writing. Maybe, they did and she just brushed it off. Linda could really do another book about more stories of her experiences musically and the Stone Poneys years is one topic to delve more into. Maybe, I or others can try and contact Bobby Kimmel somehow and get some insight into this. eddiejinfl
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Post by erik on Feb 12, 2018 10:08:37 GMT -5
Quote by eddiejinnj:
It would certainly be worth it to ask Kimmel about that aspect, as to why Linda didn't get involved in the writing, because it could really have sparked a certain amount of further creativity. She may have not liked the idea of her ever being a solo artist at first, but in the back of her mind she probably knew that a solo career was inevitable. It's kind of a strange thing to see in the business: someone who is good at working with others, but who is also too much of a singular force not to work on her own.
As for Capitol not being the right label for Linda--I think Linda acknowledged in interviews given in the first few months after the memoir came out that Capitol didn't know what to do with her because she herself didn't make it easy for them. They were a big-time label (affiliated with EMI), but, like virtually any other recording company, they tended to think in compartmentalized boxes; and in Linda, they had somebody who really couldn't be "boxed in". Was she folk? Was she rock? Was she country? Was she pop? We know that the answer to all four of these is "YES", so that may have been the problem. I don't think it was really anyone's fault, not Linda's, nor the Capitol Records folks, that Linda's time at Capitol wasn't what it could have been.
Quote by ronstadtfanaz:
In a great many ways, I think it is true that she stood on the shoulders of giants. But what I think is equally true is that Linda herself became, metaphorically speaking, one of those giants herself; and you now have four generations of female artists in mainstream country, rock, and Americana standing on her very strong and solid shoulders.
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Post by sliderocker on Feb 13, 2018 22:34:50 GMT -5
In retrospect, I agree, slide, that Capitol was not the right label for Linda. You brought up the Kimmel/Edwards writing sessions and I never really thought of it that they should have included Linda in the writing. Maybe, they did and she just brushed it off. Linda could really do another book about more stories of her experiences musically and the Stone Poneys years is one topic to delve more into. Maybe, I or others can try and contact Bobby Kimmel somehow and get some insight into this. eddiejinfl I don't think Capitol was necessarily wrong for Linda, as I think they knew they had someone on their hands who had the potential to be a huge star. However, as Linda came along in the era of singers who wrote their own songs and she didn't write or didn't believe in her capabilities to be a songwriter. Capitol and/or her manager (especially her manager) should've set the wheels in motion that she would have access to original songs. And who knows, they may have tried to get her to record original songs, only to find she wasn't interested in what was being sent to her. I'm not sure Linda would've felt at home on any of the other major labels, as all of them would've wanted the same thing: hits! Before it was part of Warners and Atlantic, Elektra was one of two labels that really didn't care if their artists recorded songs that were hits. Vanguard was the other record label that didn't put too much emphasis, if any at all, on their artists getting hits. I tend to blame Capitol for what they didn't do with Linda, but part of that blame has to belong with Linda's manager and possibly Linda herself. She could be quite opinionated about certain songs she didn't want to record and while she was right about the ones we know about, there may have been other songs we don't know about that she turned down and on which she would've been totally wrong as to her reasons. It's for that reason, I'd like to ask her while there's still time about what could've been. |
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Post by eddiejinnj on Feb 14, 2018 6:46:55 GMT -5
I can see (I should say hear) her doing "Help Me Make It Through the Night." I think maybe what made the song writing thing more of an issue for Linda was that many if not most of those singer/songwriter artists were her friends whom she worked with at times. She may have been looked upon by some (not myself) as a tag along to that era; not realizing that she was instrumental in forming the country rock/ Southern California music scene. Many would come to know later how knowledgeable she was and/or always seeking to hone her craft/artistry. eddiejinfl
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Post by the Scribe on Feb 14, 2018 15:10:15 GMT -5
Linda gave fellow songwriters credibility by recording their music and credibility by making their songs popular as her own popularity began to skyrocket. It certainly gained them notoriety and when you are less than a household name you crave that attention when your life and income depend on it. Linda said she didn't write for a couple of reasons (possibly jokingly) that she didn't want to add to the bad stuff already out there and maybe more valid "it's just NOT what I do." She struggled to find her "own" groove in her early days plus she was really learning how to sing. She mentioned her over use of vibrato as evidence. Like everyone, we all grow within our craft and wonder "why in the world did I ever do that" when looking back on the choices we made in our lives and career. As to why she chose not to sing some songs that became hits like Help Me Make It Through the Night or I Don't Know How To Love Him there may be many reasons. The day is coming when we will be able to hear Linda singing those songs so it will be interesting to see if it was a good move or not.
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Post by erik on Feb 14, 2018 20:32:11 GMT -5
Quote by ronstadtfanaz:
Among them most likely is that she did not feel those songs. It's one of her modus operandi: she won't do a song unless she feels it tells her story. She laughed about in in her interview for CBS Sunday Morning in December 2004, saying that this made her "that self-centered", but there you have it.
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Post by sliderocker on Feb 18, 2018 14:35:12 GMT -5
Linda gave fellow songwriters credibility by recording their music and credibility by making their songs popular as her own popularity began to skyrocket. It certainly gained them notoriety and when you are less than a household name you crave that attention when your life and income depend on it. Linda said she didn't write for a couple of reasons (possibly jokingly) that she didn't want to add to the bad stuff already out there and maybe more valid "it's just NOT what I do." She struggled to find her "own" groove in her early days plus she was really learning how to sing. She mentioned her over use of vibrato as evidence. Like everyone, we all grow within our craft and wonder "why in the world did I ever do that" when looking back on the choices we made in our lives and career. As to why she chose not to sing some songs that became hits like Help Me Make It Through the Night or I Don't Know How To Love Him there may be many reasons. The day is coming when we will be able to hear Linda singing those songs so it will be interesting to see if it was a good move or not. It would be an interesting experiment if we ever have the technology where songs Linda never recorded could be somehow be realized through that technology. But, it would not truly be Linda at all, but a recreation of her voice. And I know there would be some who would be so unscrupulous as to market them as previously unreleased Linda recordings. There are a number of songs I would like to have heard Linda sung, but it may be the day when that technology is feasible to make it happen may be a day when we're no longer here. I remember a news item in the 80s when there was talk of using computers to make new movies involving actors and actresses who were long dead. And there was a certain excitement in being able to see Humphrey Bogart or John Wayne in a new movie they were not there to make, just computer generated simulations of their images, voices and mannerisms. There have been many movies where scenes or a person was generated, but not anyone famous. Ultimately, it will fall to whoever is in charge of the estate to decide if it would be appropriate to use their images, mannerisms and voices in a new movie or their singing voices in a new recording. I can't see Linda being agreeable to the idea and it would fall to Mary and Carlos to decide if they wanted to do once Linda is no longer around. And I can't see them being agreeable either to the idea. But, maybe the technology will be something which can be used on a personal level and then we can make our own recordings of Linda singing songs she never sung or pair her with artists she should've sang with but never did. |
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