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Post by profstadt on Jan 27, 2016 23:41:45 GMT -5
Hi All:
I've been away for too long and am having fun catching up. An acquaintance recently commented that Linda, among a few others, had been considered for the role of Sandy in Grease. Could that be true? I wonder if any of our experts on the board have any knowledge of that. Linda in the role of Sandy would have been very, very cool. Its interesting that Linda never (to my knowledge) covered any of the Grease songs. There must be a story there...
Prof
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Post by Dianna on Jan 28, 2016 0:13:59 GMT -5
Hi Prof! Yes Linda was indeed considered for the role as Sandy.. Carrie Fisher was also a consideration. Marie Osmond actually turned the role down because of the spandex attire. she didn't forsee the image change at the end of the movie lol. I also read Henry Winkler was considered for the part of Danny Z but didn't want to typecast forever as The Fonz... I read John Travolta pushed for Olivia . he said every guy wanted her as their girlfriend.
Linda (and Marie) would have made a good Sandy... I dont know how the on screen chemistry between Linda and John...
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Post by goldie on Jan 28, 2016 0:56:07 GMT -5
Allan Carr (producer) said he originally had Linda Ronstadt in mind for the role of Sandy but as things worked out he cast Olivia Newton-John who was one of his clients at the time. I read that quote decades ago from an interview somewhere but cannot recall where. I would have loved to see Linda as Sandy but it is hard to think of anyone but Olivia in that role now.
Linda was also considered for the Mary/Yvonne Elliman part in Jesus Christ Superstar, the Evelyn Nesbitt/Elizabeth McGovern part in Ragtime and a possible starring role as Belle Starr, the outlaw. They probably got the idea for casting Linda as Belle after seeing this scene:
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 28, 2016 8:22:01 GMT -5
Allan Carr (producer) said he originally had Linda Ronstadt in mind for the role of Sandy but as things worked out he cast Olivia Newton-John who was one of his clients at the time. I read that quote decades ago from an interview somewhere but cannot recall where. I would have loved to see Linda as Sandy but it is hard to think of anyone but Olivia in that role now.
Linda was also considered for the Mary/Yvonne Elliman part in Jesus Christ Superstar, the Evelyn Nesbitt/Elizabeth McGovern part in Ragtime and a possible starring role as Belle Starr, the outlaw. They probably got the idea for casting Linda as Belle after seeing this scene: It's interesting that she was considered for all these movies, but there were no takers in signing her. I would love to have seen Linda in "Grease" in the near final scene in the kind of leather outfit that Olivia wore and smoking on that cigarette! But, the song sung by Olivia and Travolta was written by Olivia's producer and not a part of the songs used in "Grease." They would had to have used another song! Olivia's other hit, "Hopelessly Devoted" was also written by her producer, so a different song would had to have been used in that scene as well. I could've seen her doing the Belle Starr movie, although it would've been typical Hollywood glamorizing. The real Belle Starr would've made the Medusa green with envy as she was not a very attractive woman. Downright ugly, to the point she could've scared her mirror image.I sometimes think Ray Davies fashioned "Lola," based on Belle Starr. She was very manly looking. Likewise, I could've seen Linda making the kind of movies Elvis made - the better ones, although I think there wouldn't have been as many of them and it would've been just a sideline for her. For a lot of musical performers, a movie was just a sideline and not a major deal. And a lot of that had to do with the fact a lot of music performers were not very successful in making the transition from music to movies. Elvis, Streisand, Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Dean Martin made a successful transition to the movies, but all others either failed miserably at the box office or lost interest. Linda was photogenic to an extreme and could've had major success as an actress but music was her muse and not trying to be an actress. It was a road not taken, which was a pity as that road could've been interesting to see what she would've become. |
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Post by erik on Jan 28, 2016 10:33:42 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker re. Linda in movies:
Such is the way in Hollywood (although Belle Starr was in fact portrayed onscreen in the 1980 Walter Hill-directed western THE LONG RIDERS by Pamela Reed, who isn't exactly unattractive). One famous example of this is that Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway, of course, don't look anything like the real life Bonnie and Clyde, apart from the fact that, well, they're young, they're in love...and they kill people. And if anyone has seen PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, it should be noted that the two actors portraying those real-life Old West figures, James Coburn and Kris Kristofferson, were each fifteen years older than their real-life counterparts. and this was in 1972.
I have always believed that Linda, even if it weren't as Belle Starr or even Calamity Jane, would have done best in a movie if it were a Western, especially during the 70s, because of her having been raised in Arizona, being a very good horse rider, and having an unaffected Southwestern accent. Even if she doesn't fancy herself as an actress, she could really do a good job of being what she said she was at heart in her memoir, an Arizona cowgirl, without too much trouble (IMHO).
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Post by jhar26 on Jan 28, 2016 12:24:33 GMT -5
I'm glad Linda didn't get the Sandy part. She would forever be defined by that role in a not even very good movie (imo). It would have cost her in terms of credibility too.
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Post by fabtastique on Jan 28, 2016 12:24:49 GMT -5
who knows, Grease may not have been the same movie with Linda in it, but I would have loved to have seen it! Her career would have bene so different playing Sandy - not sure I'd want to change anything to be honest though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 13:34:53 GMT -5
I'm glad Linda didn't get the Sandy part. She would forever be defined by that role in a not even very good movie (imo). It would have cost her in terms of credibility too. I have to agree here.. Linda has been open about her discomfort in front of the camera, and she was wise to follow her muse (IMO) |
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 28, 2016 18:41:58 GMT -5
I have always believed that Linda, even if it weren't as Belle Starr or even Calamity Jane, would have done best in a movie if it were a Western, especially during the 70s, because of her having been raised in Arizona, being a very good horse rider, and having an unaffected Southwestern accent. Even if she doesn't fancy herself as an actress, she could really do a good job of being what she said she was at heart in her memoir, an Arizona cowgirl, without too much trouble (IMHO). There's no doubt in my mind Linda would've felt the most at home in a western-based movie, whether it was a western based during the 19th century or during more modern times. But, I could've seen her in quiet little B comedies or seriocomic family B movies that one knew was never going to win any Oscars but would still have been a movie people remembered forever. It would've been a mistake for Linda if she seriously wanted to try her hand in the movies to say she would only do "A" movies. A "B" movie would've been the perfect vehicle for her to get training for more movie parts, especially the better roles if she had wanted to go in that direction. Of course, the biggest problem is being typecast or judged as not being good enough to move up in movie class. Those of us who have been around and have followed Sally Field for her career recall that in her early days Hollywood basically wrote her off as a lightweight. Sally had to prove herself worthy of the better movies. My bet is that had Elvis stayed in the movies instead of throwing in the towel, he would've prevailed. He needed an acting mentor like Henry Fonda, who once observed that to get the top roles, one had to take on the lousier roles too. Linda had high standards for herself in her music and might well have had high standards in movies had she done them. Not every song Linda did was a gem but she lifted up the bad songs to where they were passable, just because she was singing them. And had she got herself stuck in a bad movie, she would've lifted up that movie just by being in it. |
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 28, 2016 19:09:43 GMT -5
I'm glad Linda didn't get the Sandy part. She would forever be defined by that role in a not even very good movie (imo). It would have cost her in terms of credibility too. I don't think it would've cost her too much in terms of credibility, not unless she behaved like Peter Frampton after the "Sgt. Pepper" fiasco. Frampton blew his top because Robert Stigwood gave his clients, the Bee Gees, equal billing in the movie. When Frampton was signed, the deal was he was to have sole billing. Even after the movie came out and it bombed big time, Frampton still sulked over the billing matter - for decades after the fact. The Bee Gees, who had wanted out of the movie after realizing it was going to be all music and no dialogue, moved on and did not bring up the movie afterwards unless asked about it. The movie was an embarrassment. If Linda had done "Grease" and then done no other movie, then she would've been defined by that movie. But, she did the movie version of "The Pirates of Penzance" and that wasn't a very good movie either. Just a filmed version of the stage play, really. "Grease" wasn't a very good movie either, not with 20-somethings and 30-somethings playing high school teens. But, the movie and soundtrack (worse than any Elvis soundtrack ever was, save for the two original songs for Olivia) were tremendously successful, and I think Linda would've moved on to better and bigger. It was just in her nature. For Olivia, her acting career only got worse, moving from grade B type movies to grade Z movies. It was like she couldn't resist any movie that may have looked good on paper but lousy on film. Olivia's music career didn't really suffer but her career was on a natural down swing after her highly successful album "Physical." Most artists in those days did not follow 10+ million selling albums with another 10+ million selling album. The odds were just against that kind of lightning happening more than once. But, Olivia's music down turn was more due to her health issues and staying out of the limelight while she recuperated than the fact her albums stopped selling. Had she been healthier, she might have gone on to record a few more million selling albums. As for Linda, I refuse to believe she would've allowed herself to be defined by "Grease" had she been in it. If she couldn't be defined by any music genre, what are the chances she would've defined by a movie? Slim and none! |
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Post by goldie on Jan 28, 2016 19:23:29 GMT -5
Linda has often said she could never be in a movie that didn't have (mostly) music in it. If you watch some of her music performances, especially the Mexican/Spanish ones you see the actress in her wanting to get out. Her stage performances in Pirates were quite good. I think she would have done great in a musical comedy as she has such a wonderful sense of humor and an infectious laugh.
hidvl.nyu.edu/video/000539671.html
Not sure the last video will show correctly so here is the link:
hidvl.nyu.edu/video/000539671.html#
Run-time (hh:mm:ss): 00:58:38
Language: In English and Spanish.
Synopsis: Corridos: Tales of Passion and Revolution, nationally broadcast on PBS and the winner of the George Peabody for excellence in Television in 1987, was the final result of the El Teatro Campesino's stage production of the same name. The piece began as a five week workshop in ETC's San Juan Bautista playhouse in the summer of 1982, exploring the stories and narrative lyrics of Mexican popular ballads or corridos. The workshop production was an instant popular success with audiences and critics. ETC decided to stage a new production of Corridos at the Marines Memorial Theater in San Francisco, where it ran for three months to great reviews and eleven Bay Area Critics Awards. Other stagings followed in 1984. Corridos finally evolved into a full-fledged video production in 1987, after several drafts of the script that not only reworked the selection of ballads, but also condensed the material to fit into the confines of a one-hour special. The production presents two full-length corridos: Delgadina (a haunting parable of incest in a wealthy Mexican family), and Soldadera (based on the dispatches of American journalist John Reed, in which the compelling story of Elizabeta is framed by three songs of women during the 1910 Mexican Revolution). Highlights from other traditional corridos are connected by engaging narrative sequences: Yo soy El Corrido (the story of the corrido itself), Rosita Alvirez (a comedic parable of a defiant young woman who meets an early death), and El Lavaplatos (the story of an immigrant who dreams of becoming a movie star and ends up a dishwasher). Joining members of the original cast, the production included popular songstress Linda Ronstadt, singer/actor Daniel Valdez, San Francisco Ballet artist Evelyn Cisneros, and actor Clancy Brown.
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Post by simpledream on Jan 29, 2016 1:38:19 GMT -5
I think Linda would have been an excellent talk show host.
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 29, 2016 21:50:33 GMT -5
Linda has often said she could never be in a movie that didn't have (mostly) music in it. If you watch some of her music performances, especially the Mexican/Spanish ones you see the actress in her wanting to get out. Her stage performances in Pirates were quite good. I think she would have done great in a musical comedy as she has such a wonderful sense of humor and an infectious laugh. It definitely sounds like Linda would've been comfortable in the kind of movies Elvis was making, although she would've been more discriminating, I think, about the kind of movies she was in. Whereas Elvis had no choice but to go along with the movies Parker had signed him to, Linda would've been freer to take a pass on questionable roles. But, here again, as long as she would've been in a B movie, the pressure would've been off of her to turn in an A performance. That would've allowed her to test herself, to see if it was a road she wanted to take. |
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 29, 2016 21:52:38 GMT -5
I think Linda would have been an excellent talk show host. Given her shyness, I think the one thing Linda would not have been interested in was being a talk show host. Or comfortable. |
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Post by goldie on Jan 30, 2016 0:30:15 GMT -5
She isn't that shy. At least not now. And she has always loved to talk. She is very insightful so I guess the type of talk show would have to interest her. Thing is you have to be a good listener and let the guests talk which could be hard for most to do. I liked that talk program she did with Ann Savoy. Were there more episodes made?
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Post by Dianna on Jan 30, 2016 0:40:01 GMT -5
She isn't that shy. At least not now. And she has always loved to talk. She is very insightful so I guess the type of talk show would have to interest her. Thing is you have to be a good listener and let the guests talk which could be hard for most to do. I liked that talk program she did with Ann Savoy. Were there more episodes made? I don't feel Linda is shy either.. she's outspoken and talkative for sure.. but to be a good interviewer you also have to be inquisitive or curious about other people and their lives.. like Carson was.. I dont know if she is like that |
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Post by erik on Jan 30, 2016 0:40:36 GMT -5
While it is true that Linda has been very talkative as of late, I don't think her shyness should ever be underestimated. She always was a very shy person onstage, but I think that was one of the reasons she was so successful a concert performer; it was real, the fans saw it, and they supported her. I can't think of too many other cases in pop music where that has ever happened.
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Post by simpledream on Jan 30, 2016 1:28:53 GMT -5
I agree with Goldie.
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 30, 2016 12:59:09 GMT -5
She isn't that shy. At least not now. And she has always loved to talk. She is very insightful so I guess the type of talk show would have to interest her. Thing is you have to be a good listener and let the guests talk which could be hard for most to do. I liked that talk program she did with Ann Savoy. Were there more episodes made? She might not be as shy as she once was, but I still don't know that she would've been comfortable as a talk show host. Talk show hosts frequently ask personal questions and how could Linda ask someone a personal question when she herself is the kind of person who doesn't like talking about herself or her private life personally? Recall that video clip on youtube of Johnny Carson asking her a personal question (about her love life): I recall she looked down and away from Carson after the question was asked. The question embarrassed her. And could she hold her tongue if she had a guest on who disagreed with her politically and who used an appearance on her (hypothetical) talk show to berate her for her politics and others who share her political beliefs? And the same goes for religion. Linda would have to be a good listener, no question, but she would also have to be willing to go where she herself would not go personally. Most talk shows are used by the celebrities to promote whatever they're in or have out at the moment. But, a lot of the time, they just don't want to talk about their show biz careers all the time. People like Carson, Dick Cavett, Merv Griffin and Mike Douglas were at the top of their game but then you had others like Pat Sajak or Arsenio Hall who were bland (Sajak) or on the wrong network or someone like Rosie O'Donnell, who was a good talk show host except when she would get angry about something. And then she could be combative and arrogant in believing she was 100% right and her guest was 100% wrong. One can disagree politely but going for blood is not a good trait to have for a general topic talk show. Political talk show, yes. |
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Post by Dianna on Jan 30, 2016 14:16:42 GMT -5
She might not be as shy as she once was, but I still don't know that she would've been comfortable as a talk show host. Talk show hosts frequently ask personal questions and how could Linda ask someone a personal question when she herself is the kind of person who doesn't like talking about herself or her private life personally? Recall that video clip on youtube of Johnny Carson asking her a personal question (about her love life): I recall she looked down and away from Carson after the question was asked. The question embarrassed her. And could she hold her tongue if she had a guest on who disagreed with her politically and who used an appearance on her (hypothetical) talk show to berate her for her politics and others who share her political beliefs? And the same goes for religion. Linda would have to be a good listener, no question, but she would also have to be willing to go where she herself would not go personally. Most talk shows are used by the celebrities to promote whatever they're in or have out at the moment. But, a lot of the time, they just don't want to talk about their show biz careers all the time. People like Carson, Dick Cavett, Merv Griffin and Mike Douglas were at the top of their game but then you had others like Pat Sajak or Arsenio Hall who were bland (Sajak) or on the wrong network or someone like Rosie O'Donnell, who was a good talk show host except when she would get angry about something. And then she could be combative and arrogant in believing she was 100% right and her guest was 100% wrong. One can disagree politely but going for blood is not a good trait to have for a general topic talk show. Political talk show, yes. Yes, I agree. another person who is a good talk host is Fallon..because of his genuine curiosity of other people.. and not just artists, famous people or celebrities.. everyone. I think Linda would even make a good pundit and most definitely host a musical talk show like she did with Ann.. I thought Rosie did a good job on her talk show and she stood up to the NRA (Tom Selleck) |
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Post by revin2go on Jan 30, 2016 15:06:07 GMT -5
I've heard from quite a few sources that (oddly enough) Susan Dey was the producer's first choice for Sandy (can't really see that), Marie Osmond was the second choice but ultimately turned it down and finally Olivia coming in third. Other considerations were Carrie Fisher and Deborah Raffin: www.imdb.com/title/tt0077631/trivia |
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Post by goldie on Jan 30, 2016 15:11:40 GMT -5
slide, Johnny Carson was the shyest person in Hollywood. (well known fact) He was also one of the best talk show hosts of all time.
Johnny Carson
Johnny Carson was an American comedian and host of the late night television talk show, "The Tonight Show" for 30 years. Over the course of his career he was the winner of six Emmy awards. Although Carson was comfortable being in control onstage as a performer, he was shy and reclusive in his private life. Carson died at age 79 on January 23, 2005.
other shy stars:
socialanxietydisorder.about.com/od/celebritieswithsad/tp/Shy-Comedians.htm
just sayin:
Facts About Shyness
By Steve Bressert, Ph.D.
Many people don’t know the basics about shyness. Some people think it’s just something people will grow out of with time. For most people, shyness is learned. But for some, shyness starts in infancy, with about 10 to 15% of newborns born “inhibited” (about as many are born “bold”), but for most shy people shyness is learned at some later time in life with as many as 40 to 60% of adults report being currently shy people.
Shyness can have extreme negative consequences that go beyond not having friends or getting dates, it can affect your health in a variety of ways, your career choice and the amount of money you make, and the general quality of your everyday life.
Shy people are usually introverts, but there are also Shy Extroverts. These people are privately shy but publicly outgoing and comprise an interesting group. They have the social skills but also the social anxiety of shyness in situations where they do not feel the safety of being in their “power spot,” in control, with one-way interactions where all is scripted, with no freedom of exchange, or intimacy. Many are politicians, talk show hosts, actors, journalists, comedians, and college professors, among them, Barbara Walters, Johnny Carson, Gloria Estefan, Carol Burnett, James Gandalfini of recent Sopranos fame, former president Jimmy Carter and many others.
The highest levels of shyness occur in adolescents, with higher levels in girls than boys. Reasons include: bodily changes perceived as awkward or ugly; a rise in sexual feelings and arousal; changes in female body shape reacted to by males in confusing ways; and a new focus on self and privacy.
Technology and affluence may increase the level of shyness in our culture, explained in terms of greater social isolation, less practice in face-to-face conversations, and avoidance of awkward, unfamiliar, and spontaneous interactions.
The negative effects of shyness can be effectively overcome, reduced, and minimized by a variety of treatments.
Major cultural differences in shyness exist between Jewish-Americans and Asian-Americans in our society and Jews and Japanese/Taiwanese in their countries, a difference of about 30 % greater in the Asian populations. In a study of shyness among 18-21 year olds in eight countries, researchers found high levels of shyness in every country studied, thus supporting a claim that shyness is found in all cultures. However, the highest levels found were among the Japanese, Taiwanese and Asian-Hawaiians, with Jewish Americans and Israelis at the low end of the continuum.
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Post by Dianna on Jan 30, 2016 18:11:55 GMT -5
interesting about shyness. I feel I'm very reserved but not shy
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Post by sliderocker on Jan 31, 2016 19:40:49 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. another person who is a good talk host is Fallon..because of his genuine curiosity of other people.. and not just artists, famous people or celebrities.. everyone. I think Linda would even make a good pundit and most definitely host a musical talk show like she did with Ann.. I thought Rosie did a good job on her talk show and she stood up to the NRA (Tom Selleck) Fallon is a good talk show host. I don't have a problem with Rosie because she is a likable person and there comes a time when standing up to some people is a given, especially any NRA mouth pieces. But, others, I'm not so sure about. Bill Maher, who I happen to like, has people on his show he disagrees with and he rarely raises his voice. He can be arrogant at times but he lets his guests say what they want to say (most of the time), but then he offers the counterpoint and often in a way without putting down the guest. |
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Post by eddiejinnj on Feb 1, 2016 7:53:58 GMT -5
Linda could be a shy extrovert. I am like that. She did an excellent job with Ann on the radio. That probably is the medium that best suits her. eddiejinnj
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Post by Richard W on Feb 1, 2016 9:02:12 GMT -5
The main problem with the prospect of Linda as Sandy in Grease is that Linda can't act.
I'm not saying that Olivia is any Streep, but she's just that much less self-conscious of the camera to make the difference.
That Linda is no actress is fine with me. Her performances come from her voice when she sings. Had she been distracted by film acting, I shudder to think of all of the music we would not have.
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Post by Dianna on Feb 1, 2016 13:46:13 GMT -5
That's true Richard. It's interesting that the role of Mabel is a similar character to Sandy.. Do you guys think Linda's real life persona was more Rizzo than Sandy.. playing poker with the guys and cussing like a truck driver.
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Post by Belle on Feb 1, 2016 14:40:34 GMT -5
The main problem with the prospect of Linda as Sandy in Grease is that Linda can't act. I'm not saying that Olivia is any Streep, but she's just that much less self-conscious of the camera to make the difference. That Linda is no actress is fine with me. Her performances come from her voice when she sings. Had she been distracted by film acting, I shudder to think of all of the music we would not have. I agree, It's interesting that Linda was considered, but I'm glad she did not pursue acting. I'm afraid they would have made a bad actor out of a great singer... Much like MTV did with many decent musicians. |
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Post by goldie on Feb 1, 2016 17:33:04 GMT -5
I think Linda acted just fine in Pirates and would only have improved had she continued acting. I saw Pirates in the theater and people were rolling on the floor laughing similar to the way they did with the play. Linda's timing was perfect. But music is her first love and she said she thought actors were "greasy" no pon intended lol.
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Post by Richard W on Feb 1, 2016 18:01:45 GMT -5
I seem to recall Wilfred Leech, the director of Penzance, saying (and I paraphrase) that Linda had to be led around the stage like a maiden aunt. But her singing was glorious.
Dianna, I'd say Linda is more Mabel with a sailor's mouth.
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