|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jul 14, 2015 21:38:54 GMT -5
Sometime in mid to late 1963 to early 1964, Elvis Presley had been recording versions of Chuck Berry'sMemphis, Tennessee, with the plan that it would be released as a single. After the sessions were completed, his excitement for releasing the song as a single remained unabated, and he had taken home an acetate recording. His hopes were high that it would be a Top 40 single and a big hit.
Enter Johnny Rivers. Rivers had been hanging around with Elvis and had even gotten to be good friends with Elvis, a rare feat for most of Elvis's contemporary musical performers. It was said they even rode their motorcycles together around the southern L.A. cluster of cities.
Then, one night at Presley's Bel Air, California home, Presley played Rivers the acetate of his version of Memphis, Tennessee, and told Rivers it was his next single release. Immediately afterwards, Rivers left Presley's house and then promptly etntered the recording studio and recorded his own version, which was released as a single and became a big hit for him. It was said Elvis blew up big time when he found out what Rivers had done and barred him from ever being allowed to visiting him again.
Details of the story were never made public in Elvis's lifetime but were revealed in Elvis's buddy Marty Lacker's book Elvis: Portrait of a Friend. In his book, Lacker related the tale but never revealed who the artist actually was. Rivers was eventually outed by someone as the artist who had crossed Elvis, although he hotly contested that he had recorded his version of Memphis, Tennessee and rush releasing it ahead of Elvis's own eventual release which ended up being canceled.
The matter is still a sore point for Rivers. In an interview a few years back, he claimed that while it was true he had recorded the song, the decision to release it as a single wasn't his idea but his producer's, Lou Adler. Adler in the same story said the decision had been his, that Johnny wasn't in town when the decision was made to release it as a single. As for Elvis holding it against Johnny, longtime Presley guitarist James Burton insisted Elvis had great respect for Johnny Rivers and always made sure he got a good table to see Elvis's show when he came to Las Vegas. Marty Lacker has always maintained since Johnny Rivers was outed as the artist who had crossed Elvis that Elvis had no use for him. Still, given what James Burton had to say, it does seem likely that Elvis wouldn't have held a grudge and practiced forgiveness.
Still, one has to wonder, was the Elvis version first heard on Elvis For Everyone the version heard by Johnny Rivers? Or was it an alternate version picked for release because it bore no resemblance to Rivers' version? One thing that has never been clear is whether the first version of Memphis, Tennesseeby Elvis bore a much more passing resemblance to the Johnny Rivers version? The Elvis version on Elvis For Everone (1965) was from 1964 and had a very Beatlish feel to it.
And judging by the other takes on youtube, they sounded pretty much the same, which probably would put them from the 1964 sessions. But, I'm not sure if any of the versions recorded in 1963 have been released. Or which take it was Johnny heard. I couldn't see him hearing Elvis's Beatlish version and deciding that was his cue to record the same song. The issue remains a sore point with Elvis' fans and Johnny's fans.
The above is a link for Johnny's hit.
The above is a link for Elvis's 1964 version.
The above is a link for a live version by Elvis from Atlanta, GA in 1973. The version sounds very much like Johnny's version and doesn't bear a resemblance to his 1964 version. There's also another version from 1971, but could the version above been based on his own version from 1963 and which may have been what Johnny heard?
|
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Jul 15, 2015 3:37:37 GMT -5
You gotta wonder why Rivers would have run out to record it anyway knowing what he knew. Seems like kind of a willful ignorance on his part. And to do that to Elvis whom he must have respected.
|
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jul 15, 2015 7:00:00 GMT -5
You gotta wonder why Rivers would have run out to record it anyway knowing what he knew. Seems like kind of a willful ignorance on his part. And to do that to Elvis whom he must have respected. Some have argued that because guitarist Lonnie Mack had a hit with the song earlier in 1962, that Elvis likely wouldn't have gotten a hit if he had released his version when Rivers released his. Elvis's friends urged him to do just that but he declined, saying let Rivers have his hit - though Elvis used a little more earthy language to express his anger. I always thought it took Rivers a lot of nerve to do what he did since he knew Elvis planned his version as a single. Then again, his plan may have been to record his own version as an album track in anticipation of Elvis's version being a hit, and then Lou Adler hearing Johnny's version, decided it was good enough to be a single. Ironically, in Elvis's movies "Loving You" and "Jailhouse Rock," the writers of those movies had written in intentional scenes warning Elvis about shady managers and their stunts and shady record companies and singers who would pull the kind of stunt Rivers pulled. Elvis took notice of the warnings but he was a bit naive at the time and still green, especially about his fellow musicians. He must have thought that was something that wouldn't have happened to him. |
|
jsstcb
A Number and a Name
Posts: 29
|
Post by jsstcb on Jul 20, 2015 22:01:04 GMT -5
The problem with this "Johnny Rivers", "Memphis Tennessee" song story is that it was actually
"Terry Stafford" and the song was "Suspicion".
|
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jul 20, 2015 23:19:53 GMT -5
The problem with this "Johnny Rivers", "Memphis Tennessee" song story is that it was actually "Terry Stafford" and the song was "Suspicion". No...Marty Lacker admitted years after his book Portrait of a Friend that the artist in question was Johnny Rivers. I thought Terry Stafford was a possibility but a couple of things disqualified that possibility. One was that Elvis recorded Suspicion in 1960 and it wasn't considered as a single at that time. Stafford's hit was in 1962. Marty Lacker's story was circa 1963-64. That ruled out Stafford. Another thing was that Terry Stafford was a songwriter and wrote the country hit Truck Drivin' Man. Elvis's music publishing company had the publishing on the song, suggesting the song was meant for Elvis. There were other performers who had songs originally recorded by Elvis and who had hits with them (Joe Dowell, Wooden Heart), but again it was after Elvis's versions had been around for a few years. There was nothing to suggest Elvis was going to release an old song, already available as a single, Col. Greed Parker notwithstanding. RCA did release Elvis's version of Wooden Heart as a single which did make the Top 40 but it was released as a Gold Standard single, which had a different catalog number to regular RCA releases. You've got to remember as well that the song in question by Elvis had not been previously released. And that again lets out Stafford but not Rivers. Elvis's version of Memphis, Tennessee was released in 1965 and definitely sounded like it could've been a hit. It can't be argued too much in hindsight. But, the Rivers hit, coming in 1964, is the only song connected to Elvis which points to the fact Elvis was going to release it as a single. And Marty's assertion that it was Rivers was supported by Lamar Fike, who I believe, brought up the issue in Revelations of the Memphis Mafia. The Memphis Mafia, whatever one thinks of them, were with Elvis on a daily basis. Fans were not in a position to know what was going on whereas the MM was. I spoke with Marty several times on an Elvis newsgroup and he'd answer your questions on anything related to Elvis. But, he didn't like it when fans asked dumb questions, thought they knew more than he knew about Elvis or treated him rudely, which some fans did. I enjoyed being able to ask him questions because that was as close to Elvis as I'd ever get. When it came to privacy, Elvis was perhaps just as guarded of his privacy as what Linda was. Those two would've made a good musical pairing (similar musical tastes) and a good couple. Pity it never happened. Maybe next time... |
|
jsstcb
A Number and a Name
Posts: 29
|
Post by jsstcb on Jul 21, 2015 6:26:55 GMT -5
Good points, I hadn't heard Marty had changed who and what song it was.
"Suspicion" was clearly a effort to sound as close as possible to Elvis's version with his voice and music, possible the first imitator.
|
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Jul 21, 2015 12:15:14 GMT -5
Elvis recorded Suspicion? I always thought Stafford was Elvis, not paying attention as they sound alike. I am a bigger fan of Elvis' later stuff...mostly late 60's which is when I mostly came of age. What a great time for music. I am glad Elvis kind of held over into that zone. Pop-Rock star viability never seemed to have longevity with the exception of a special few.
|
|
|
|
Post by erik on Jul 21, 2015 14:33:27 GMT -5
Quote by Goldie:
I think Elvis' version came out in 1961, Stafford's wasn't until 1964, where, despite the charts being dominated by groups from Across The Pond, it became a very big Top 10 hit that summer.
|
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Jul 21, 2015 19:08:21 GMT -5
Elvis recorded Suspicion? I always thought Stafford was Elvis, not paying attention as they sound alike. I am a bigger fan of Elvis' later stuff...mostly late 60's which is when I mostly came of age. What a great time for music. I am glad Elvis kind of held over into that zone. Pop-Rock star viability never seemed to have longevity with the exception of a special few. Elvis cut Suspicion in March 1962 and it was released on his album, Pot Luck, released June 1962. It was written by Doc Pomus and Mort Shuman and published by Elvis's music publishing company. It was not released as a single at the time. I misread when Terry's version was a hit. It was 1964 and not 1962 but regardless of the wrong year, Elvis had no intention of releasing his version as a single. RCA, probably in collusion with Parker, did release Suspicion as an intended A-side designed to capture some of Terry's sales, but it was relegated to B-side status as it was the flip side, Kiss Me Quick, another Elvis oldie that actually charted in the Top 40, its highest chart position being 34. There was actual suspicion by disc jockeys and people that Terry Stafford and Elvis were one and the same person. Or that Elvis was guesting on Terry's version and singing parts of the song. First time I heard Terry, I thought it was Elvis singing although when I heard Elvis's version of the song. There were some similarities, especially on the "suspicion" line and chorus. I think Terry's record even gave Parker a start, thinking Elvis was making some extra bucks on the side and cheating him! But, I did think Elvis's version wouldn't have made for a good single for him. The musical backing didn't have the punch of Terry's version. Still, if Elvis had released it as a single at the time? Pot Luck was like the albums the Beatles would release which featured no singles although RCA would release some afterwards as Elvis's movie career started sapping his creative intensity. |
|
|
|
Post by elvis fan on Oct 28, 2015 13:05:58 GMT -5
Interesting to see the Elvis Suspicion recording on the WHBQ acetate coming up at Astons for auction. This one is from August 20th 1961 and on a WHBQ radio station metal acetate at 78 rpm. The source and date is 100% but no-one knows whether the Suspicion recording is definitely made before August 20th 1961 although many think it must be as it is the A side of the acetate and should therefore have been made first with the jingle added later to advertise ticket sales for the concert at Ellis auditorium on the above date. In any event the acetate would seem to prove that the radio station was looking to plug the Elvis suspicion recording as a possible single release before it was released on pot luck. Great recording - is it the same as the one released on pot luck or are there any differences I wonder. Could Elvis have gone to WHBQ in 1961 to record it live there to plug it?
|
|
|
|
Post by erik on Oct 28, 2015 14:42:01 GMT -5
Quote by elvis fan re. August 20, 1961 acetate for "Suspicion":
I'm kind of curious about that date, which says a live show there in Memphis in '61. Now I could be wrong about this, but what I've always read is that, following a benefit performance aboard the U.S.S. Arizona at Pearl Harbor in the spring of 1961, the only way fans could see Elvis (or were allowed to see him by the Colonel, that is) until the 1968 NBC Special, and then the July 31, 1969 opening in Las Vegas, was on the big screen. And as has been well documented, and said here, the results (and the songs that went with them) were usually not flattering of the Man's talent.
|
|
|
|
Post by FREEBOT on Apr 18, 2018 10:43:23 GMT -5
It's a free country and as long as Rivers had permission to record the song how can anyone prove or disprove this? There is a 65 Ford in the picture and Elvis and Johnny are riding motorcycles. Also Rivers Memphis sounds way better than the Elvis version. It doesn't sound like a copy!
|
|
|
|
Post by Partridge on Apr 19, 2018 1:23:24 GMT -5
Even though I was only 10 or 11 at the time, I was a fan of Johnny Rivers. Since Johnny Rivers version was released in February 1964 on his LP, it was probably recorded in 1963. At any rate, Johnny Rivers music from that period was better'n Elvis, in my inestimable opinion. I think I will pull that album and see if it has dates recorded.
I was not a big Elvis fan as a child-- probably because my exposure was mostly to records owned by my parents. I remember enjoying most of my parents' albums (except Kitty Wells) and my first exposure to Elvis was putting on the soundtrack to King Creole. I was not impressed- this wasn't up to the standards of the other records they owned. So it seems as a young child my favorite male singer was Rick Nelson (through exposure from Ozzie and Harriet) and later Johnny Rivers. And on a totally unrelated note, the first female singer to catch my attention was Wanda Jackson with her shimmying fringe dress and rockabilly stylings.
|
|
|
|
Post by Partridge on Apr 19, 2018 1:46:34 GMT -5
You could certainly go from recording to marker quickly in the early '60s. According to Wikipedia, Johnny Rivers recorded his album Live at Whisky a Go Go during a run starting January 15, 1964 and the album was released in February. Which of course does not settle the matter of stealing the song idea from Elvis. If he did crib the arrangement from Elvis, he used the style a lot. I always thought he was paying tribute to Chuck Berry, as he recorded several of his songs at the Whisky- Memphis, Brown Eyed Handsome Man, Maybellene, Roll Over Beethoven, Johnny B. Goode-- so if Elvis gave him the idea to latch onto Chuck Berry, he ran with the idea. I don't remember having any recollection of Chuck Berry until I heard his songs by Johnny Rivers.
The liner notes on my CD reissue make no mention of Elvis-- only that Rivers moved to California after he wrote a song that was recorded by Ricky Nelson that got his foot in the door of the industry.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldie on Apr 19, 2018 15:55:55 GMT -5
After some reconsideration of my earlier post (and education on my part) one has to remember that the time period in question happened right after the generation before had multiple singers recording a songwriters new song at the same time, after it was written. That was the way things were done then. It wasn't unusual to have two successful hits of the same song by two different singers. When we look back we judge by today's standards and things have changed quite a bit. Baby Boomers were coming into their own and the 1950's belonged to that "in-between" generation born in the 30's that came of age in the 50's. It was a transition period between the old and the new. I don't believe Johnny was trying to steal anything. He just knew a good song when he saw it and recorded it. Johnny Rivers worked that music really well and bridged the two generations much like Linda did later on although she managed to start a new genre by bridging country, rock and a folk sound as well as popularizing multi generational time periods. Not a small thing to do from this little girl-next-door from Tucson with the huge voice and a lot of patience and an ear for music.
|
|
|
|
Post by Partridge on Apr 19, 2018 22:21:56 GMT -5
If Johnny Rivers used a visit with Elvis as an excuse to steal a song arrangement and then rush to record and release it, that would be heinous in any era. I don't think Johnny Rivers had any real power in the industry at the time. If he were plotting to do this, the plot would involve recording an entire live album- not the recording of just one song. And I've not seen him admit to any wrongdoing. His musical style was one he had already established over the previous year. And according to the updated liner notes, his live album was turned down by every major label until Liberty Records agreed to release it on the Imperial label. Doesn't sound like he had a ulterior motive.
|
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Apr 21, 2018 14:40:19 GMT -5
After some reconsideration of my earlier post (and education on my part) one has to remember that the time period in question happened right after the generation before had multiple singers recording a songwriters new song at the same time, after it was written. That was the way things were done then. It wasn't unusual to have two successful hits of the same song by two different singers. When we look back we judge by today's standards and things have changed quite a bit. Baby Boomers were coming into their own and the 1950's belonged to that "in-between" generation born in the 30's that came of age in the 50's. It was a transition period between the old and the new. I don't believe Johnny was trying to steal anything. He just knew a good song when he saw it and recorded it. Johnny Rivers worked that music really well and bridged the two generations much like Linda did later on although she managed to start a new genre by bridging country, rock and a folk sound as well as popularizing multi generational time periods. Not a small thing to do from this little girl-next-door from Tucson with the huge voice and a lot of patience and an ear for music. I now don't believe Johnny Rivers intentionally meant to cost Elvis a hit as I've read quite a bit on the story since my original post. But, I can see how Elvis in 1964, already fed up with many of the songs for the soundtracks and seeing the Beatles arriving on the scene and wanting to get back to making some serious music again, felt betrayed by Rivers. Johnny probably didn't realize when he performed Memphis at the Whiskey a Go Go that it was going to be released as a single. Elvis' version of Memphis was a good performance and most likely, it could've been a hit single had he released it. But, he had to be very familiar with the practice of competing versions and how some competing versions didn't fare so well on the charts. Music publishers frequently took the same song to different artists trying to persuade them to record the song. Music publisher and songwriter Aaron Schroeder took Gene Pitney's song He's a Rebel to the Blossoms, who recorded the song and who then released it as the Crystals. Schroeder also took the song to singer Vikki Carr, who also recorded the song and released it at the same time as the version by the Crystals was released. The Crystals' version was a number one hit; Carr's version (in a poorer arrangement) wasn't successful at all. But, Schroeder job as publisher for Gene Pitney was to get his client's songs recorded and he probably took along the songs of many other songwriters, trying to get those songs placed. By the way, in the 50s and early 60s, Schroeder was one of Elvis' regular songwriters. As for Elvis' version of Memphis, as it was released on an album in 1965, it's surprising RCA didn't release his version of the song in 1965 as a single. It likely would've been successful in 1965 as it would've been had it been released in 1964 against Johnny's version. Enough time had passed since Johnny's version had been a hit that there wouldn't have been a "competing version" problem. As the story was not related until Marty's 1978 book on Elvis, a year after he died, no one would've known in 1965 that the song had been a source of friction between Elvis and Johnny. But, as James Burton mentioned that Elvis always made sure Johnny got a good seat in Vegas to see him, again, I believe Elvis forgave Johnny and moved on. The Follow That Dream label (FTD), which handles RCA/BMG/Sony releases on Elvis, released a Vegas concert on CD in which Elvis performed Memphis. Rivers must've been in the audience as the arrangement was practically a verbatim copy of Johnny's arrangement. Or had it been Elvis' first arrangement all along and which Johnny borrowed for the Whiskey a Go Go performance? And Elvis' concert performance was a subliminal dig? |
|
