|
|
Post by fabtastique on Sept 4, 2014 14:24:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 4, 2014 14:34:32 GMT -5
So sad. At 81 she stayed current and hip with Joan's fashion police. A comedic trend setter. RIP funny lady
|
|
|
|
Post by erik on Sept 4, 2014 14:38:37 GMT -5
You kind of get the feeling of your own mortality everytime you hear about these celebrity deaths. Although I don't think she was always funny, it's still a serious loss for her to have passed away, no matter how you look at it (IMHO).
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 4, 2014 16:17:46 GMT -5
You kind of get the feeling of your own mortality everytime you hear about these celebrity deaths. Although I don't think she was always funny, it's still a serious loss for her to have passed away, no matter how you look at it (IMHO). Yes one does look to their own mortality. Joan's humor might not have been for everybody but I got her and thought she was hysterically funny, outrageous and quit witted. She made many people laugh. Her show Fashion Police will never be the same without her. I doubt she can be replaced. |
|
|
|
Post by philly on Sept 4, 2014 17:45:52 GMT -5
My aunt had dinner with Joan years ago. Said she was very nice. RIP.
|
|
|
|
Post by erik on Sept 4, 2014 17:52:23 GMT -5
I would say, however, that she made one hell of a colossal mistake in her career. The mistake was not that she got the late-night talk show gig at the burgeoning Fox network in 1986 (the pre-Rupert Murdoch era), but the fact that she didn't tell Johnny Carson, her mentor, face-to-face in advance that she was getting this gig.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 4, 2014 18:16:33 GMT -5
I would say, however, that she made one hell of a colossal mistake in her career. The mistake was not that she got the late-night talk show gig at the burgeoning Fox network in 1986 (the pre-Rupert Murdoch era), but the fact that she didn't tell Johnny Carson, her mentor, face-to-face in advance that she was getting this gig. and he never spoke to her again, which I thought was pretty douchebaggery and childish of him. |
|
|
|
Post by erik on Sept 4, 2014 18:37:15 GMT -5
Quote by Dianna:
But I would argue that the fact that Rivers never even told him about it, that he had to learn about from the media and not from the source, would have constituted an act of betrayal in anybody's book, which was something that even Joan herself acknowledged many years later. She knew Johnny well enough by that time to know what his reaction would be if she kept this fact from him, and she went and did it that way anyway. There are some lines in the entertainment business that you either don't cross at all, or, if you do, not only should you make sure you tell those you're closest to, as Rivers was to Johnny right up to that point, what you're going to do, and when it's going to happen, but you should be upfront about it. Don't let them know about it in the media, or you'll earn nothing but their wrath from that point forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 4, 2014 18:59:21 GMT -5
Quote by Dianna: But I would argue that the fact that Rivers never even told him about it, that he had to learn about from the media and not from the source, would have constituted an act of betrayal in anybody's book, which was something that even Joan herself acknowledged many years later. She knew Johnny well enough by that time to know what his reaction would be if she kept this fact from him, and she went and did it that way anyway. There are some lines in the entertainment business that you either don't cross at all, or, if you do, not only should you make sure you tell those you're closest to, as Rivers was to Johnny right up to that point, what you're going to do, and when it's going to happen, but you should be upfront about it. Don't let them know about it in the media, or you'll earn nothing but their wrath from that point forward. funny Joan tells it differently.. and I tend to believe her because Johnny was more old school and she was a woman..Can you imagine had Linda R did the same thing to The Eagles.. |
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Sept 4, 2014 23:51:07 GMT -5
Quote by Dianna: But I would argue that the fact that Rivers never even told him about it, that he had to learn about from the media and not from the source, would have constituted an act of betrayal in anybody's book, which was something that even Joan herself acknowledged many years later. She knew Johnny well enough by that time to know what his reaction would be if she kept this fact from him, and she went and did it that way anyway. There are some lines in the entertainment business that you either don't cross at all, or, if you do, not only should you make sure you tell those you're closest to, as Rivers was to Johnny right up to that point, what you're going to do, and when it's going to happen, but you should be upfront about it. Don't let them know about it in the media, or you'll earn nothing but their wrath from that point forward. funny Joan tells it differently...and I tend to believe her because Johnny was more old school and she was a woman..Can you imagine had Linda R did the same thing to The Eagles.. Joan's explanation sounds reasonable to me, given she made so many appearances on the Tonight Show, including hosting the show when Johnny wasn't there. She was an in demand performer whose talk show appearances would raise the ratings of those shows. It was an opportunity and she took it on but I think Carson's reaction was that instead of him still seeing her as a friend and wishing her good luck (or in the old Hollywood tradition, breaking a leg), he saw her as a competitor, someone whose show could've lowered his ratings. Carson was the king of the night talk show market and he had vanquished the likes of Dick Cavett, Joey Bishop, Geraldo Rivera and who knows how many others. But, he wasn't invincible and towards the end of his run, the Tonight Show had gone from being a ninety minute program to a one hour program. And he took frequent breaks with guest hosts substituting for him or NBC airing reruns. He was good at what he did but then, so was Joan. Even if she hadn't kept him in the dark, it's likely he would've dumped her as a guest and a guest host, as it seemed to be Tonight Show policy or NBC policy or both that you didn't promote someone who appeared on a rival network. When Jay Leno was still hosting the Tonight Show, there was a stink of a story that if a celebrity appeared on The David Letterman Show, the Tonight Show would not book that celebrity in retaliation. Leno got beat down when that story broke but I got a feeling that policy had actually began with Carson and/or NBC. Carson could've been magnamious to Joan by wishing her the best and good luck but maybe his ego (of which it was said he had a large one) wouldn't allow him to do that. |
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Sept 5, 2014 3:47:46 GMT -5
No disrespect to her family but making a living being extremely mean and caustic to people like Liz Taylor was more than I could take from her. I don't know how she or anyone could think that was funny or even ok to do. And then her recent comments about the Palestinians, oy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard W on Sept 5, 2014 8:52:11 GMT -5
All I will say about Rivers -- as polarizing (and, in the case of her Palestinian remarks, idiotic) as she could be -- is that every single time I saw her, she made me laugh at least once. Always.
Say what you will, there was no one like her, and unique personalities like that are sorely missed when they are gone.
Rivers talking about the effects of gravity on her body: "I got out of bed this morning and looked at me feet and wondered when I got these gray fuzzy slippers..."
|
|
|
|
Post by Auntie on Sept 5, 2014 10:16:08 GMT -5
If Joan Rivers had given Johnny Carson advance notice, the proven ahole would have used his influence to ruin her in the business and get her deal canceled.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard W on Sept 5, 2014 10:41:55 GMT -5
And why should Rivers have disclosed anything to Carson? It's show biz. He knew that, he knew the biz (what, she should pass up an opportunity?), and considering their long relationship, I find it very cold of him to cut her out of his professional life like that.
I really liked Carson, but not that aspect of him.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 5, 2014 14:32:12 GMT -5
All is that every single time I saw her, she made me laugh at least once. Always. Say what you will, there was no one like her, and unique personalities like that are sorely missed when they are gone. Rivers talking about the effects of gravity on her body: "I got out of bed this morning and looked at me feet and wondered when I got these gray fuzzy slippers..." On Hollywood preserving their youth-She knew how ridiculous many of these celebrities were/are about their looks and she herself played into it.. On Madonna's recent nip slip - The first guy whoever masturbated to Madonna is collecting social security Madonna's superbowl cheerleader outfit-Looks like Madonna flunked 10th grade 48 times. I'm gonna miss her, no one else is like her. I can't imagine who would replace her on FP.. except maybe Kathy Griffin.. |
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Sept 6, 2014 0:46:54 GMT -5
Would everyone here miss her so much if Linda Ronstadt had been the target and not Liz Taylor?
|
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Sept 6, 2014 10:13:49 GMT -5
Would everyone here miss her so much if Linda Ronstadt had been the target and not Liz Taylor? Joan could be caustic, no question of that but did you know Liz Taylor or how she reacted to Joan's barbs? Liz had been fodder for many comics over decades and not just with Joan. And some of those comics also said some mean things about her weight, her marriages, her friendship with Michael Jackson, her perfume business and anything else they came up with for their monologues. Johnny Carson made quite a few jokes about her marriages and I believe even her weight a time or two. I don't remember her once ever saying the comics were crossing a line and that they needed to stop. Fans sometimes get too easily offended on a celebrity's behalf even though the celebrity is someone they don't personally know. Just because a fan was offended doesn't mean the celebrity was offended. |
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Sept 6, 2014 12:39:39 GMT -5
So you knew Liz Taylor? Wow. But that doesn't answer my question.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 6, 2014 12:58:27 GMT -5
Would everyone here miss her so much if Linda Ronstadt had been the target and not Liz Taylor? Liz Taylor.. that was a long time ago.. what I liked about Joan is how she stayed current and relevant..Joan has said a few things I didn't like, far worse than a movies stars weight.. which I didn't care for... She also made fun of herself too.. If she had made fun of Linda's illness I probably would get pissed off.. but she did once describe this horrible painting.. looked like Michael J Fox drew it during an earthquake.. would depend on the context I suppose.. And many of the celebrities loved being dissed by Joan on the red carpet.. it meant they were relevant. Many have admitted so. |
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Sept 6, 2014 13:16:54 GMT -5
Thanks for an honest answer. She walked a "fine" line in my opinion and crossed it on many occasions but frankly I never found her terribly funny or even amuzing. Funny though she didn't seem to take criticism aimed towards her very well. When one can dish it out but can't take it is how I decide. She made that decision easy for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 6, 2014 14:09:44 GMT -5
well regardless a daughter sill lost her mother. Joan and Melissa Rivers were very close. I think she did too much.. someone like Betty White seems to pace herself.. I still thought of Joan as 50 or 60 yrs old.
|
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Sept 8, 2014 10:23:49 GMT -5
So you knew Liz Taylor? Wow. But that doesn't answer my question. No, I never said I knew Elizabeth Taylor. What I was trying to say in my comment was that fans tend to be more offended and react negatively to bad jokes that are said about a favorite celebrity. More so than the celebrity reacting to the same jokes. Would I have been offended if Joan Rivers had made some jokes about Linda? That would've depended on what was said but the question here I guess would be were the jokes just jokes or meant as something more offensive and insulting? Just as I didn't personally know Elizabeth Taylor, I didn't know Joan Rivers and don't know Linda, so there would've been no way to have known whether the jokes were just jokes or something more. Again, I never did see Elizabeth Taylor complaining about the jokes made about her - which went back to the 60s that I recall and maybe even earlier than that. She may have been offended or she may have blown it off as coming with the territory of being a celebrity. But, because we don't know what the celebrities think about the jokes being made about them - if they don't say anything, why should the fans be more offended, especially when we don't know them personally? |
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 8, 2014 13:12:37 GMT -5
So you knew Liz Taylor? Wow. But that doesn't answer my question. No, I never said I knew Elizabeth Taylor. What I was trying to say in my comment was that fans tend to be more offended and react negatively to bad jokes that are said about a favorite celebrity. More so than the celebrity reacting to the same jokes. Would I have been offended if Joan Rivers had made some jokes about Linda? That would've depended on what was said but the question here I guess would be were the jokes just jokes or meant as something more offensive and insulting? Just as I didn't personally know Elizabeth Taylor, I didn't know Joan Rivers and don't know Linda, so there would've been no way to have known whether the jokes were just jokes or something more. Again, I never did see Elizabeth Taylor complaining about the jokes made about her - which went back to the 60s that I recall and maybe even earlier than that. She may have been offended or she may have blown it off as coming with the territory of being a celebrity. But, because we don't know what the celebrities think about the jokes being made about them - if they don't say anything, why should the fans be more offended, especially when we don't know them personally? Right Slide. I like other personalities in show business who have said things about linda's weight Obviously it didn't bother me because I still like that personality.. And really who gives anyone the right to dictate who and who you or I would find funny or entertaining. The only time I felt offended by what Joan Rivers said was the kidnapped girls in cleveland..I wrote to her and said so. but I not gonna hold a grudge forever or boycott her show..she's funny. .. in all honesty I don't feel so bad for the celebrities when Joan tosses insults their way. they are probably far better off than most of us on the forum.. it's the people who have gone through horrible experiences like the girls in cleveland or palestinians deserve to be dead> even that was taken a little out of context. I did see her rant.. |
|
|
|
Post by sliderocker on Sept 9, 2014 0:45:46 GMT -5
Right Slide. I like other personalities in show business who have said things about linda's weight Obviously it didn't bother me because I still like that personality.. And really who gives anyone the right to dictate who and who you or I would find funny or entertaining. The only time I felt offended by what Joan Rivers said was the kidnapped girls in cleveland..I wrote to her and said so. but I not gonna hold a grudge forever or boycott her show..she's funny. .. in all honesty I don't feel so bad for the celebrities when Joan tosses insults their way. they are probably far better off than most of us on the forum.. it's the people who have gone through horrible experiences like the girls in cleveland or palestinians deserve to be dead> even that was taken a little out of context. I did see her rant.. I don't believe anyone should be dictating to others who they should or should not find funny and entertaining either, nor do I believe should a fan take a comic's joke about a celebrity so personally. What's it to them? I didn't catch what she said about the kidnapped girls in Cleveland but that joke would've been crossing the line. Likewise, her comments about the Palestinians but all too often, too many people take the political correctness too far. I remember hearing some comments about Linda's weight, not from comics but from radio disc jockeys of the morning kind, who thought they were being funny by trying to come up with the nastiest zingers to say about her. But, their jokes fell flat and they moved on to making other jokes about other things. But, the DJ jokes about Linda were lame compared to the jokes the DJs made about Ann Wilson of Heart on her weight issue. The jokes they made about Ann were downright cruel and merciless. I doubt that Joan personally meant anything she said about another celebrity - can't say I remember ever hearing about any celebrity feuding with her over her jokes. Except when the celebrity sometimes provided the fuel for Joan's jokes. I can't remember if Joan was guest hosting the Tonight Show or a guest on the show, but actress Victoria Principal was on and talking about her career, starting with a John Wayne movie she had appeared in. Principal had claimed to have been born in 1950 and said she was 22 when she made the movie with Wayne. Well, the JW movie in question was released in 1967 and if Principal was 22 when she made the movie, that would've put her year of birth in 1945 - 1944 if produced the year before it was released. Joan seized on the discrepency and called her out on lying about her age. Principal was furious and embarrassed but she was the one who had said too much and didn't count on Joan figuring out how old she was. Joan made a few jokes for a while over the incident but it was an incident that was mostly forgotten and Principal was safe to shave off the years again. |
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Sept 9, 2014 15:47:44 GMT -5
I don't think calling oneself a comedian gives one the license to say or do whatever without consequences or blowback. The relentless targeting of a person publicly to make a buck is the sign of a lazy comedian. The thing about her or Howard Stern for instance is that they make it very personal and mean spirited. Other comedians make fun all the time but don't stoop to harassing tactics and comments to line their pockets. I realize there are fans of that kind of humor just like there are people who see nothing wrong with killing Palestinians. Takes all kinds to make the world go round but you would never find me apologizing for those that do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 9, 2014 17:45:15 GMT -5
I realize there are fans of that kind of humor just like there are people who see nothing wrong with killing Palestinians. Takes all kinds to make the world go round but you would never find me apologizing for those that do. I know what you are insinuating and that is very messed up.. your little play on words. Not funny and very mean spirited as well. I think Slide is correct . too many people worry about what others say about celebrities. I've got news for you.. Linda Ronstadt couldn't care less about any of us nor would most any other celebrity . I don't wish anyone harm. In this case, I only admire Linda's talent and wish her well.... and if she said something horrific about the girls in cleveland or palestine I'd write to her just like to miss rivers.. and move on.. |
|
|
|
Post by Goldie on Sept 13, 2014 4:02:20 GMT -5
Please accept my apologies. I see red when certain people in the public eye are in the news, for whatever reason and I shouldn't take it out on her fans directly or indirectly, especially a fellow Ronstadt fan. Once again you are quite perceptive and correct.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dianna on Sept 13, 2014 22:29:22 GMT -5
Please accept my apologies. I see red when certain people in the public eye are in the news, for whatever reason and I shouldn't take it out on her fans directly or indirectly, especially a fellow Ronstadt fan. Once again you are quite perceptive and correct. Thank you. |
|
