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Post by fabtastique on Jul 4, 2014 3:16:32 GMT -5
I really wish Linda had gotten round to recording the much discussed album of Jimmy's tunes.
I'd love to have heard her blow these great songs out of the park :
MacArthur Park
It's A Sin When You Love Somebody
Didn't We
Wichita Lineman
Any others on the wish list?
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Post by erik on Jul 4, 2014 8:37:34 GMT -5
I always thought she would have done "Didn't We?" or "MacArthur Park" pretty well (many, of course, have less-than-rosy feelings about the latter because of Richard Harris' recording of it).
Another I could have suggested would have been "Just This One Time".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 9:13:10 GMT -5
I have to be an iconoclast here, and respectfully disagree on MacArthur Park. Amazing that the master Jimmy Webb wrote a song whose lyrics would have been scorned by any Freshman English class.. sorry folks  |
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Post by erik on Jul 4, 2014 9:18:01 GMT -5
Quote by robertaxel:
Perhaps, but I could name quite a few so-called "songs" on the radio these days that sound infinitely worse, and infinitely more infantile, than even Jimmy's "someone left a cake out in the rain".
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Post by fabtastique on Jul 4, 2014 10:15:47 GMT -5
Yes, the lyrics to MacArthur Park aren't his best, but interesting and hands down better than many many other "great songs". It's a great song though and I love the emotional build each verse to the chorus, and especially the crescendo at the end .... Linda could have worked wonders on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 10:26:18 GMT -5
Quote by robertaxel: Perhaps, but I could name quite a few so-called "songs" on the radio these days that sound infinitely worse, and infinitely more infantile, than even Jimmy's "someone left a cake out in the rain". It's quite sad how true this is... |
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 4, 2014 10:58:40 GMT -5
All I Know
If Ships Were Made to Sail
Where's the Playground Susie
Linda would have no trouble on most of Jimmy's songs. The three above came immediately to mind, particularly the last as Linda had written in her book about wishing she had recorded WTPS. But, there's one Webb song I would not have wanted to have heard Linda sing: "Up, Up and Away." That was another one of those songs where too many artists rushed to record their own version of the song after another act (in this case, the Fifth Dimension) had a hit with it. In fact, there were many covers on most of Jimmy Webb's hits with Glen Campbell. I don't remember as many covers on "All I Know" although the artists who generally covered another artist's hit may have moved on to follow other songwriters. "If Ships Were Made to Sail" was a short song, barely two minutes long and eight lines, from Jimmy's own album "And So On." That was a good album but ISWMTS was never going to be a hit - didn't have that potential - but it had a charm all its own.
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jul 4, 2014 11:07:54 GMT -5
it was probably best that MacArthur Park was a dance song. the lyrics aren't as important when one is shaking their fanny off lol. eddiejinnj
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Post by erik on Jul 4, 2014 12:29:23 GMT -5
Others that come to mind:
"If These Walls Could Speak"
"Campo De Encino"
"If You Must Leave My Life"
"Earthbound"
"Is There Love After You?"
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 4, 2014 13:03:39 GMT -5
it was probably best that MacArthur Park was a dance song. the lyrics aren't as important when one is shaking their fanny off lol. eddiejinnj "MacArthur's Park" was never a dance song so much as it was a long song that alternated between slow ballad sections and fast instrumental sections. That would've made it fairly difficult for someone to dance to. But, as for the issue of the bad lyrics that's been discussed, people often make a big deal about bad lyrics in pop music although they forget the fact that the lyrics have to fit the bars of music, and not the other way around. The words have to flow with the music and perfect English writing doesn't always do that. The words also have to rhyme generally in addition to flowing with the music, and here again, letter-perfect English may not do that. |
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Post by rick on Jul 4, 2014 13:55:19 GMT -5
All I Know <snip> I don't remember as many covers on "All I Know" although the artists who generally covered another artist's hit may have moved on to follow other songwriters. Of course, Linda did some harmonizing/back-up vocals on "All I Know" for Webb's "Just Across the River" album in 2010. I believe it was said that was the last song that Linda recorded. I own it. It makes me sad to listen to it. Another Webb song that Linda did (on "Cry Like a Rainstorm") is "I Keep It Hid." This appeared on a Supremes album with a Mary Wilson vocal long after Diana Ross had left the group. The song never resonated with me. And then Linda recorded it and I "discovered" the song. There is another Jimmy Webb song that Linda might have done. Called "This Is Your Life," which appeared on The Fifth Dimension's "Portrait" album, with a lead by Florence LaRue -- And I always wished that Linda had released a solo studio version of "Time Flies." She was such a champion of the song and she performed the live duet of the song with Rosemary Clooney on The Boston Pops PBS program. And Rosemary later released a solo version of her own. Here is the Boston Pops performance -- |
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jul 4, 2014 16:58:01 GMT -5
well we danced to Donna Summer's MacArthur Park. I was a teen during the disco era and in nj we danced to that. I guess you didn't dance to it slide. it was number 9 on the 1978 top 50 dance chart. eddiejinnj
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Post by simpledream on Jul 4, 2014 19:05:14 GMT -5
Agree rethe excellent 'Time Flies' - I was hoping this would have made the duets album. I would have loved her to sing "By The Time I Get To Phoenix" (from a female perspective)
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 5, 2014 0:19:25 GMT -5
Of course, Linda did some harmonizing/back-up vocals on "All I Know" for Webb's "Just Across the River" album in 2010. I believe it was said that was the last song that Linda recorded. I own it. It makes me sad to listen to it. Another Webb song that Linda did (on "Cry Like a Rainstorm") is "I Keep It Hid." This appeared on a Supremes album with a Mary Wilson vocal long after Diana Ross had left the group. The song never resonated with me. And then Linda recorded it and I "discovered" the song. There is another Jimmy Webb song that Linda might have done. Called "This Is Your Life," which appeared on The Fifth Dimension's "Portrait" album, with a lead by Florence LaRue -- It is sad to listen to Webb's own version of "All I know" with Linda on harmony/backing vocals, knowing it was the last recording or one of the last recordings she ever worked on. I thought there was another song she did with another artist that was the last but I may be misremembering. About the Mary Wilson/Supremes version of "I Keep It Hid" not resonating, that's what happens I feel when the song and artist/group are not right for each other. I didn't even know the Supremes had even recorded the song although Webb did write a few songs for Motown artists. He wrote "Honey Come Back" for the Temptations, I believe - maybe the Four Tops (when they were at Motown), gave Motown the publishing and either they didn't record the song or they didn't release it. Since it was half spoken, half sung, Motown probably didn't see it as a hit but Glen Campbell saw the potential and had a hit with it. It was right ffor him. I sort of remember "This Is Your Life," vaguely. My late sister used to have that Fifth Dimension album but it wasn't one I borrowed a lot to play. |
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 5, 2014 0:30:45 GMT -5
well we danced to Donna Summer's MacArthur Park. I was a teen during the disco era and in nj we danced to that. I guess you didn't dance to it slide. it was number 9 on the 1978 top 50 dance chart. eddiejinnj No, I didn't much care for Donna's version of "MacArthur's Park," even though I like most of what Donna did do, so I didn't dance to the song either. I actually liked Richard Harris's version, more now than what I did in the late 60s and early 70s. The song just grew on me over the years. Moody Blues guitarist Justin Hayward also recorded a version of the song. Hayward is a good vocalist and the song is right up his alley and did a good job of it but his version might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I like it as well. |
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 5, 2014 0:50:34 GMT -5
Agree rethe excellent 'Time Flies' - I was hoping this would have made the duets album. I would have loved her to sing "By The Time I Get To Phoenix" (from a female perspective) I think there were a few versions of "By the Time I Get to Phoenix" by female middle of the road/easy listening or country performers in the 60s and 70s. Generally, the artists who covered the hits other artists had in those days could be found in those two genres as some artists didn't have access to a lot of original tunes because of having low album sales. Changing the gender perspective from male to female on BTTIGTP would've been easier than with doing the same on some other songs. Tammy Wynette did a version of "Honey" (yeah, the Bobby Goldsboro hit) that has to be heard to be believed because of the last verse and ending. There wasn't a problem with her version until she got to the end and then it just got very, very bizarre. One of the strangest recordings I've ever heard. |
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Post by fabtastique on Jul 5, 2014 1:05:15 GMT -5
Time Flies is a lovely song ......
I was unsure of By The Time I Get To Phoenix for Linda but yes, I love that tune too so add it onto the list!
Up Up And Away ..... hmmm - not sure anyone can get away with this song other than 5th Dimension - linking to another thread Michael Feinstein did an album of Jimmy Webb songs about 10 years ago. Some of these were "unknown" to me (although he destroys Adios and The Moon's A Harsh Mistress) but he tackled Up Up And Away in quite a nice slow bossa-nova arrangement but the rest were pretty dull (not helped by his voice!)
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Post by rick on Jul 5, 2014 1:56:10 GMT -5
It is sad to listen to Webb's own version of "All I know" with Linda on harmony/backing vocals, knowing it was the last recording or one of the last recordings she ever worked on. I thought there was another song she did with another artist that was the last but I may be misremembering. About the Mary Wilson/Supremes version of "I Keep It Hid" not resonating, that's what happens I feel when the song and artist/group are not right for each other. I didn't even know the Supremes had even recorded the song although Webb did write a few songs for Motown artists. He wrote "Honey Come Back" for the Temptations, I believe - maybe the Four Tops (when they were at Motown), gave Motown the publishing and either they didn't record the song or they didn't release it. Since it was half spoken, half sung, Motown probably didn't see it as a hit but Glen Campbell saw the potential and had a hit with it. It was right ffor him. I sort of remember "This Is Your Life," vaguely. My late sister used to have that Fifth Dimension album but it wasn't one I borrowed a lot to play. Jimmy Webb actually produced an album by the Supremes -- the last one to feature Jean Terrell, the singer who replaced Diana Ross as lead. Here is the Wikipedia w/ the tracks -- Wikipedia on Jimmy Webb-produced album for The Supremes I actually like the Jimmy Webb-penned song, "5:30 Plane" - Besides being instrumental with The Fifth Dimension in penning the group's first big hit, "Up, Up and Away," Webb produced two complete albums -- "The Magic Garden" and the group's final album, "Earthbound," with Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis. Dusty Springfield also recorded the song "Magic Garden." Not sure how Linda might have approached that track. On "Magic Garden," Webb wrote all of the songs, except "Ticket to Ride." She might actually have decided to tackle "The Worst That Could Happen," but I'm not sure Linda cares/cared enough marriage to want to sing a song that would start out, "Boy, I hear you're getting married...." Wikpedia on "The Magic Garden" album by Webb for The Fifth Dimension Here is the whole album on YouTube -- And then... Wikipedia article on "Earthbound," produced and arranged by Jimmy Webb |
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Post by fabtastique on Jul 5, 2014 2:06:13 GMT -5
Never really liked Magic Garden ....
Also I think Linda did a great job producing Suspending Disbelief for Jimmy. Postcards From Paris is a lovely song with a hint of Linda on backing vocals.
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 5, 2014 10:42:44 GMT -5
Jimmy Webb actually produced an album by the Supremes -- the last one to feature Jean Terrell, the singer who replaced Diana Ross as lead. Here is the Wikipedia w/ the tracks -- Wikipedia on Jimmy Webb-produced album for The Supremes I actually like the Jimmy Webb-penned song, "5:30 Plane" - Besides being instrumental with The Fifth Dimension in penning the group's first big hit, "Up, Up and Away," Webb produced two complete albums -- "The Magic Garden" and the group's final album, "Earthbound," with Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis. Dusty Springfield also recorded the song "Magic Garden." Not sure how Linda might have approached that track. On "Magic Garden," Webb wrote all of the songs, except "Ticket to Ride." She might actually have decided to tackle "The Worst That Could Happen," but I'm not sure Linda cares/cared enough marriage to want to sing a song that would start out, "Boy, I hear you're getting married...." Wikpedia on "The Magic Garden" album by Webb for The Fifth DimensionAnd then... Wikipedia article on "Earthbound," produced and arranged by Jimmy WebbFascinating stuff about Webb writing and producing albums for the Supremes and the Fifth Dimension. I don't remember either of the final efforts with Jean Terrell on the Supremes and Marily McCoo and Billy Davis on the Fifth Dimension. Don't remember any big hits. But, I always thought Motown basically wrote off the Supremes after Diana Ross left them although they did have a few hits after she left them. I sometimes wonder how that went down with her? Probably didn't. The fortunes of the Fifth Dimension seemed to also take a dive after 1972 and I think that could've been due to a lack of interest from their record label. As I recall, they were on Bell, had support from Larry Uttal but as soon as Bell was taken over by Clive Davis, he changed the name to Arista and dropped some of the artists who had recently had hits for the label because he didn't like them or their music. I don't know if the Fifth Dimension was a victim of his dislike as they did go from Bell to ABC during that time, but did they leave on their own volition or because Davis dropped them? I could've seen Linda tackling any song of Webb's and not having any problem with the lyrics. On "The Worst That Could Happen," I think it's a mistake to assume that what a singer feels personally about a subject, the same beliefs and/or life situations also dictate the content of the lyrics in their song choices. Linda may or may not have been against marriage but on TWTCH, the protagonist is saying to the person getting married, that maybe it's the best thing for that person but it's the worst that could happen to him and he never wanted to get married. So, it wouldn't have been much of a stretch for Linda unless she really did want to get married at one time, and maybe the lyric might have cut a little too close to home. |
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Post by Richard W on Jul 6, 2014 8:01:20 GMT -5
The thing with Webb is: if his lyrics sometimes aren't all that, his melodies certainly are. Considering how Linda classically rides a melody, she could sing the hell out of any Webb tune.
Regarding MacArthur Park: despite the infamous lyrics, that song has a fabulous melody.
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 6, 2014 10:54:36 GMT -5
The thing with Webb is: if his lyrics sometimes aren't all that, his melodies certainly are. Considering how Linda classically rides a melody, she could sing the hell out of any Webb tune. Regarding MacArthur Park: despite the infamous lyrics, that song has a fabulous melody. That's true but I still like his songs and laugh about people who protest/think too much over nothing when it comes to the song lyrics, whether it's his songs or any other songwriter's songs. Just enjoy the song as it is, irrespective of the bad lyrics. |
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markm
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Post by markm on Jul 6, 2014 10:54:41 GMT -5
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Post by fabtastique on Jul 6, 2014 11:35:43 GMT -5
Thanks Mark, I'd not seen this before.
I saw Jimmy Webb perform at Ronnie Scott's in London about 7 or 8 years ago. He talked about how lucky he'd been to have had to have great singers like Linda sing his songs. Of Linda's voice, he said cheekily that she could be heard without a microphone from five blocks away above the noise of New York traffic .... It brought a big laugh, then he sang "Shattered" , another wonderful tune.
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markm
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Post by markm on Jul 6, 2014 17:44:39 GMT -5
That must have been a great concert. Webb was definitely fortunate to have so many great voices record his songs. It was great fun talking to Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis about Webb.
I don't think all the singers who've sung Webb "get" him equally--and I think this is where Linda really shines. She's one of his best interpreters--THE best on some songs. That clip of Linda and Webb doing The Moon's a Harsh Mistress together is a zenith in the history of popular music. Linda is in amazing voice that night.
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Post by Richard W on Jul 7, 2014 8:51:28 GMT -5
That was a fascinating read, Mark.
Two things: I'm probably only one of two or three people who bought the 5th Dimension's "Earthbound" when it was released. Of course, being a teen, I had no idea who Jimmy Webb was, let alone what he and the group were attempting with that album. I only know I liked it and played it quite a bit. Alas, it has disappeared into the black hole of non-CD-released vinyl.
Also, didn't Linda produce "Suspending Disbelief?"
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jul 7, 2014 9:40:41 GMT -5
yes she did Richard!!!! the chieftains song I did a thread about was recorded or at least released in 2010 and wasn't that Guadalupe song done in 2010 or was that 2009? I thought the same things re: "All I Know." For me personally, it was her way to almost say goodbye to her fans (since at that point she had decided not to perform any longer). A perfect song lyrically and historically since webb was important to her and a great project for her to be involved in. eddiejinnj
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markm
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Post by markm on Jul 7, 2014 9:56:42 GMT -5
Thanks Richard. Jimmy was great fun to talk to and we covered a lot of ground. I had Earthbound too--but you'll be happy to know it has just been released on CD. Cleaned up and sounding great. Webb has always said that album got away from him, and Marilyn & Billy told me that it was a difficult experience because the group was falling apart. But there are some great moments on that album.
Yes, as Eddie points out, Linda did produce Suspending Disbelief. I also felt that All I Know with Webb was like a coda on her career. It always makes me melancholy to hear it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 8:21:01 GMT -5
Has anyone read JW's autobiography "The Cake & The Rain"? If so how much mention of Linda is there?
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Post by Biff McFly on Aug 7, 2021 9:08:21 GMT -5
Jimmy Webb gave Lucy Casado (Lucy's El Adobe) a RIAA gold record for MacArthur Park. She had it on the wall behind where she worked. I sure miss her. She was a great lady. She was always on my case about not recording stuff.
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