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Post by sliderocker on May 30, 2021 17:02:39 GMT -5
The way I take heartbreaker's observation is that Linda has said that her belting singing style is more reflective of Lola Beltran than other genre belters. Linda has also said that her style of country (the American Southwest cowboy country) vs Dolly's more Eastern Appalachia style is different. I think of "Old Paint" when I think of Southwest country. Dang soggy weekend here, it still raining here. I feel bad for the tourism merchants. eddiejinnj Quite right, Eddie. Linda was more southwestern western swing (not country, in that sense - some western swing could pass for rock, given some performers used drums and saxophones long before the Nashville establishment ever did), but she had the deep south country influence as well, which made up the Eastern Appalachia. I suspect that came from her older brother and sister, particularly her older sister Gretchen. Wonder if Gretchen could've been the one who introduced her to gospel or if that came from cousins on her mother's side? I was always put off by that genre, by all the vocalist singing at the same time and all mixed to the front, making the recording sound extremely harsh, jarring and unpleasing. Add in the musicians who made no effort to make the music shine. I heard a lot of this genre growing up because my mom was always buying it. To me, it was just plain vomit, a waste of vinyl. Lola Beltran may have been an influence on Linda in Linda's approach to rock and roll and to the recordings in which she sung in Spanish. I don't know about the other genres, but Linda's style was all her own. An influence is just that and in all of Linda's interviews, I don't think she's ever pointed to any particular recording on which she was influenced by Lola or any other artist. It's difficult to say Linda was influenced by Lola on this song or another song. Not when you have Linda dismissing her work. She probably would not want to invoke Lola's name on her recordings out of being ashamed. Maybe. That's another question I would like to ask Linda if I ever had the chance. Those questions however, are likely just wishful thinking.
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Post by erik on May 31, 2021 21:14:01 GMT -5
I'm going out on a long, slender limb again here, with what has been admittedly one of the most-covered songs of all times, namely John Hartford's "Gentle On My Mind", which she could have done in her early alt-C&W/rock days, either in Glen Campbell's quasi-bluegrass version from 1967:
...or the more R&B style one done by, you guessed it, The King:
Quote by sliderocker re. Linda's influences:
I think Gretchen/Suzi was the one who got Linda hooked onto Hank Williams, for starters, at an awfully early age (as Linda was only six and a half years old when the "Hillbilly Shakespeare" passed away), so that's the starting point of her C&W influence, an emphasis on honky-tonk; and this was only a few short years before C&W and R&B started co-mingling. When Linda, Gretchen, and Pete formed the New Union Ramblers, this was at the beginning of the urban folk movement, which introduced young urban kids to the mountain music of the Deep South and Appalachia, including bluegrass; and of course the music of Dylan, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Joan Baez, and Judy Collins. And one can't discount Patsy Cline's influence on Linda, even without Linda having done "I Fall To Pieces" and "Crazy".
One of the more hopped-up things Linda has said is that since she wasn't spectacularly immersed in black music, she never thought of herself as a rock and roll singer. For for the life of me, I don't know what rule there is in the rock and roll book (like rules even would exist for such a book) that in order to be a great rock and roll belter, you had to be largely influenced by black music in the first place. So if Linda was influenced more by Lola Beltran's belting style, and I can't doubt that she was, then Linda pretty much added that belting style to the rock and roll mix pretty much on her own.
In the end, in combining all of her influences, even beyond the age of 10, Linda, like Elvis, really never sounded like anybody else. And as her good pal Emmy says at the end of THE SOUND OF MY VOICE: "There's just no one who ever has had or who ever will have a voice like Linda's."
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Post by sliderocker on Jun 1, 2021 9:30:19 GMT -5
I'm going out on a long, slender limb again here, with what has been admittedly one of the most-covered songs of all times, namely John Hartford's "Gentle On My Mind", which she could have done in her early alt-C&W/rock days, either in Glen Campbell's quasi-bluegrass version from 1967:
...or the more R&B style one done by, you guessed it, The King:
Must admit, Gentle On My Mind is a song I wouldn't have thought of getting Linda to cover. It's an interesting choice as I didn't think any female singers had recorded the song, though a few had recorded the song including Allison Krauss, Aretha Franklin (minor hit on the R&B charts for Aretha), Patti Page (Billboard Top 100, # 66 - Easy Listening # 7 - still waiting on an explanation how a song cane do lousy in the Top 100, yet the Easy Listening or Adult Contemporary, a song can still be a million seller if in the Top 10 of that chart) and pop vocalist Nancy Wilson (not the Heart guitarist-singer-songwriter). It would've been a good choice, I think, although sure to have runned up against Linda's stubborn streak and resistance to others trying to get her to record this song or that song.
I think Gretchen/Suzi was the one who got Linda hooked onto Hank Williams, for starters, at an awfully early age (as Linda was only six and a half years old when the "Hillbilly Shakespeare" passed away), so that's the starting point of her C&W influence, an emphasis on honky-tonk; and this was only a few short years before C&W and R&B started co-mingling.
Linda cited Gretchen as the one who got her weaned on Hank Williams, although Linda only recorded two of Hank's songs. Unless there's additional songs in the can we don't know about.
When Linda, Gretchen, and Pete formed the New Union Ramblers, this was at the beginning of the urban folk movement, which introduced young urban kids to the mountain music of the Deep South and Appalachia, including bluegrass; and of course the music of Dylan, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Joan Baez, and Judy Collins. And one can't discount Patsy Cline's influence on Linda, even without Linda having done "I Fall To Pieces" and "Crazy".
I hadn't considered it but it may have been the bluegrass music where Linda learned the gospel genre as many folk artists recorded songs bluegrass artists had recorded. I just wonder what the nuns at her school would've thought of that? Or the Catholic church she attended? I think Linda was heavily influenced by country as a pre-teen and teenager, and although she denies being a rock and roller, she was influenced by rockers like Elvis (although she thinks he didn't grow as an artist) and Buddy Holly. Patsy Cline had to be a big influence, though I wish Linda had recorded a few more of Patsy's songs.
One of the more hopped-up things Linda has said is that since she wasn't spectacularly immersed in black music, she never thought of herself as a rock and roll singer. For for the life of me, I don't know what rule there is in the rock and roll book (like rules even would exist for such a book) that in order to be a great rock and roll belter, you had to be largely influenced by black music in the first place. So if Linda was influenced more by Lola Beltran's belting style, and I can't doubt that she was, then Linda pretty much added that belting style to the rock and roll mix pretty much on her own.
There is no rule per se that says a rock and roll belter has to be influenced by a black belter, although when you compare the black belters of the 1950s compared to the pop performers of the same era, I think Linda could've been influenced to some degree by the black belters. I mean, the pop performers of the time, like ol' blue eyes Frank Sinatra weren't belters but soft crooners. I still find it rather odd Linda never made a mention in interviews of liking Sinatra when she was younger (pre-Don't Cry Now), not even mentioning her family listened to Sinatra. I remember one early interview where Linda said she listened to Kitty Wells, but later on, she claimed she never hungered for a Kitty Wells record.
I sometimes think Linda was a fair weather fan of certain artists. Or she liked them but was influenced by her peers into not liking them. The first reference I saw to Linda liking Sinatra was when she lived with J.D. Souther and he played Sinatra for Linda. When Linda did the old standards in the 80s, I don't know if Linda actually liked those songs when she was 10 or if that was another of J.D.'s influences.
In the end, in combining all of her influences, even beyond the age of 10, Linda, like Elvis, really never sounded like anybody else. And as her good pal Emmy says at the end of THE SOUND OF MY VOICE: "There's just no one who ever has had or who ever will have a voice like Linda's."
That is totally true.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 9:44:12 GMT -5
Another great Patsy Cline song that has "for Linda" on it
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Post by erik on Jun 1, 2021 13:22:51 GMT -5
To me it is not so much of a matter of how many songs by the artists Linda was influenced by she actually did, but what she specifically learned form them in terms of the way to phrase certain words or lines. When it comes to the country-and-western material, instead of trying to put on a hammy/exaggerated Southern twang (which was probably bothered her about Kitty Wells, though she probably channeled a bit of Kitty's early 1950's country feminist streak on Silk Purse), she does it with a totally naturalistic Southwestern drawl. Obviously, the elemental "cry" in her voice is part Patsy Cline, and a fair amount of her spiritual role model Lola Beltran, not to mention Lola's belting style influencing the vocal power of her own rock and roll style.
And I will say this again: Even though Linda may say rock and roll never defined who she is, the fact is that, in doing the various styles that led to rock and roll's birth prior to her turning eight years old (country; R&B; jazz; gospel; blues), she did define what rock and roll itself is at its core: a mélange of both Black and White music styles.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 15:56:37 GMT -5
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Post by erik on Jun 1, 2021 23:13:44 GMT -5
You probably would get varying opinions about Linda doing "I'm Not Lisa" in light of the fact that Jessi Colter's version was not only a big pop/country crossover hit, but a pop/country crossover hit at the same time as Linda's own "When Will I Be Loved?". Would it really be a song Linda could relate to on an emotional level the same way it did for Jessi? I would guess probably not, but then I could be wrong.
And just for the arcane purposes of a few degrees of separation, Jessi's husband was the ultra-legendary and ornery Waylon Jennings, a.k.a. A Man Called Hoss. Waylon's 1968 hit "The Only Daddy That'll Walk The Line" got feminized the following year by Linda as "The Only Mama", and turn it into a hard-edged honky-tonk C&W/rock throwdown. It's kind of a pity that we didn't see a bit more of that from her (IMHO).
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Post by RobGNYC on Jun 1, 2021 23:38:54 GMT -5
You probably would get varying opinions about Linda doing "I'm Not Lisa" in light of the fact that Jessi Colter's version was not only a big pop/country crossover hit, but a pop/country crossover hit at the same time as Linda's own "When Will I Be Loved?". Would it really be a song Linda could relate to on an emotional level the same way it did for Jessi? I would guess probably not, but then I could be wrong. And just for the arcane purposes of a few degrees of separation, Jessi's husband was the ultra-legendary and ornery Waylon Jennings, a.k.a. A Man Called Hoss. Waylon's 1968 hit "The Only Daddy That'll Walk The Line" got feminized the following year by Linda as "The Only Mama", and turn it into a hard-edged honky-tonk C&W/rock throwdown. It's kind of a pity that we didn't see a bit more of that from her (IMHO). "Would it really be a song Linda could relate to on an emotional level the same way it did for Jessi?" I don't think so because Jessi wrote it. Even if Linda has the "better" voice, this one is Jessi's.
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Post by sliderocker on Jun 1, 2021 23:46:24 GMT -5
Here are a couple of Michael Nesmith songs I think Linda should've done. One of which could've been done pre-Heart Like a Wheel and the other, maybe an extra track for Hasten Down the Wind.
Pre-HLAW:
HDTW - maybe as an extra track for the album. A Tex-Mex song, first part sung in Spanish, second part of vocals sung in English:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 10:42:07 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 6:55:08 GMT -5
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Post by sliderocker on Jun 6, 2021 15:35:00 GMT -5
This song was written and performed originally by Leonard Cohen and was performed by K.D. Lang at Cohen's memorial tribute. It would've been a good song for Linda to have covered. An excellent song.
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Post by erik on Jun 6, 2021 18:44:45 GMT -5
On another long, slender limb here, with Dylan's "Love Is Just A Four-Letter Word" (here in Joan Baez's 1969 folk/country recording made in Nashville):
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jun 7, 2021 6:43:15 GMT -5
It is actually a shame, imo, that Linda and K.D. didn't collaborate more other than the 70th Birthday Rose Clooney album. They all sounded great together. eddiejinnj
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 7:51:15 GMT -5
I find Linda's Riddle album singing to be close in style and pace to Nat King Cole (& Sam Cooke), who had a young voices, as Linda had.
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Post by erik on Jun 10, 2021 12:14:11 GMT -5
Since they were once her backing band:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 14:20:16 GMT -5
Gender flipped or not, Hollywood Waltz would have been great for Linda.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 14:37:52 GMT -5
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jun 10, 2021 14:55:13 GMT -5
I have heard some of Tim Buckley's songs and I think Jeff Buckley. This version of "Hallelujah" is a masterpiece. It is stunning. I wish Linda did that song. eddiejinnj
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 15:05:49 GMT -5
One of my favourite tracks on "Simple Dreams" is Old Paint and I wish Linda had sung more songs like that, though Colorado on "Don't Cry Now" is another.
This song by my favourite male Country singer, Marty Robbins, who was also an Arizonian, is one which Linda would have sung feelingly I believe.
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Post by erik on Jun 11, 2021 20:47:22 GMT -5
Given Linda's Arizona upbringing, there's probably a fair amount of Western material, similar to "Colorado", "Desperado", and "Old Paint", that she could have done in a convincing C&W/rock fashion, perhaps mixed with some Mexicana elements.
I even fancy her covering Dolly's "Jolene" in a sort of Western fashion, in fact.
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Post by sliderocker on Jun 11, 2021 21:58:57 GMT -5
I even fancy her covering Dolly's Jolene in a sort of Western fashion, in fact.
I think that song would've been a good choice for Linda to have done with a rock arrangement. Dolly also had another song I liked, Light of a Clear Blue Morning. It was a good song for Dolly but it never got the attention it deserved. Linda could've delivered a killer version.
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Post by MokyWI on Jun 12, 2021 9:44:54 GMT -5
This tune has me on repeat lately. I've been listening to many different versions but the one I seem to go back to the most is Rumer's version. . I wonder what Linda could have done with it. I've included a live version and the recorded version by Rumer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 10:50:08 GMT -5
Given Linda's Arizona upbringing, there's probably a fair amount of Western material, similar to "Colorado", "Desperado", and "Old Paint", that she could have done in a convincing C&W/rock fashion, perhaps mixed with some Mexicana elements. I even fancy her covering Dolly's " Jolene" in a sort of Western fashion, in fact. While Dolly's Jolene was a piteous pleading song, Linda's style could have been more confrontational. Thinking of I Remember When, Hurts So Bad and other songs like Alison, Party Girl and even La Rialera.
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Post by PoP80 on Jun 12, 2021 11:38:51 GMT -5
I even fancy her covering Dolly's Jolene in a sort of Western fashion, in fact.I think that song would've been a good choice for Linda to have done with a rock arrangement. Dolly also had another song I liked, Light of a Clear Blue Morning. It was a good song for Dolly but it never got the attention it deserved. Linda could've delivered a killer version. Allison Moorer covers that song on her Soothing Soul Sunday show on FB/IG almost every week. She adds a great deal of passion and power to the lyrics and delivery.
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Post by eddiejinnj on Jun 12, 2021 11:52:43 GMT -5
Is "I Remember When", "I Knew You When", heartbreaker? "Jolene" would have been a cool song for Linda to do. eddiejinnj
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 12:22:34 GMT -5
Is "I Remember When", "I Knew You When", heartbreaker? "Jolene" would have been a cool song for Linda to do. eddiejinnj Yes, sorry, "I Knew You When"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 10:00:09 GMT -5
Definitely with Emmylou for this, solo fine too of course,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 10:04:24 GMT -5
Ditto,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 17:51:20 GMT -5
Great Canciones duet...
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