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Post by fabtastique on Apr 11, 2015 12:20:27 GMT -5
I'm Restless is a Jennifer Warnes song, Every Little Bit Hurts - I'm not sure of its history but I guess fits with Linda's girl group 50s / 60s sound that sort of fit with her original concept for Winter Light but I'd read it was a CLAR outtake .... Link to a nice version here, can't find Linda's online anywhere
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Post by PoP80 on Apr 11, 2015 15:56:11 GMT -5
I can totally hear Linda sing Every Little Bit Hurts. It's definitely in her "wheelhouse." I like the Brenda Holloway version better than the one by Alicia Keys. Maybe Linda's recording will surface somewhere. I know you sleuths will be on the case...
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Post by eddiejinnj on Apr 12, 2015 9:50:48 GMT -5
Thanks Fab. The only other Warnes writing connection that Linda did that I know of was, "Song of Bernadette", on Aaron's "The Grand Tour" album. I updated the Wikipedia site on the song itself and included that it was done gorgeously by Aaron and Linda as a duet on the album and live on his Christmas special. Facts easy for them to check and keep on the page. We always plugging for ya Linda lol!!!!!!! eddiejinnj
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Post by fabtastique on Apr 12, 2015 13:40:03 GMT -5
Song Of Bernadette is a lovely duet by Linda and Aaron. Someone posted I'm Restless and Every Little Bit Hurts on the board a few years ago .... Not great quality (rehearsals etc) but worth listening to. I have them but not sure how to share ? :S
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daveb
A Number and a Name
Posts: 26
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Post by daveb on Apr 14, 2015 0:01:04 GMT -5
I'm late to this thread but wanted to add my thoughts. Favorites: Don't Cry Now Heart Like a Wheel Prisoner in Disguise Hasten Down the Wind Silk Purse
I had to include Silk Purse in there because it was the first Linda album I bought. I remember listening to the radio and hearing Long Long Time and basically falling in love. I thought it sounded like the girl from the Stone Ponies. Of course it was.
And being so smitten, as an 18 year old, I listened to these country, and folk songs and took them in as they were the vehicle that brought me Linda. I was a Beatle fan, had never listened to a country song but Linda got me to understand them and folk and Country rock became my favorites.
I find the criticism of Silk Purse here odd. I think maybe those of you who don't get it must have started listening to Linda later in her career. Like many artists, Linda, in her first 3 records was finding her voice. It was Louise, and Life is Like a Mountain Railway that were the precursors of Love has no Pride, of Faithless Love, and Desperado. It was really amazing to see her develop and become so popular.
Dave
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Post by jhar26 on Apr 14, 2015 6:10:54 GMT -5
Re: Hasten Down the Wind (song) That "she doesn't understand the song" charge was leveled at Linda many times, especially by RS, and especially by that Springsteen-is-God writer whose name momentarily escapes me. I remember him saying that she frequently "misses the essence" of a song and "rarely goes below the surface." Whatever. I think that these insults were meant to make Linda look shallow and stupid (which she ain't), an effort by the male writers to keep her in "bimbo" mode. As Moe indicated, there's nothing about HDTW that requires a doctoral thesis to parse its meaning. Further, considering how many times Linda must have sung it even before recording it, to say nothing about after, there's no doubt that she parsed whatever "meaning" it has. And nailed it. I think that's nearly impossible, even if she was a bimbo, which she definitely wasn't. Songwriters like Zevon, Newman, Young, Browne, Bonoff and others were friends, so if she would have gotten the meaning of a song wrong they would have pointed it out to Linda. The problem that some critics had with Linda is that she sang "too pretty." They prefer imperfection which they mistake for authenticity. Sometimes they even mistake incompetence for the real thing. But it doesn't matter. There's never been an artist who was liked by everyone, so who cares? Dave Marsh has a right to his negative opinion, just like we have a right to disagree with him. It doesn't make him Satan. I'm sure that there's music I love that others here would hate and vice versa. It's music, which means that there are as many different opinions as there are listeners.
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Post by Satan on Apr 14, 2015 7:14:30 GMT -5
No, Dave Marsh is not Satan, I am, although I do call him son.
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Post by Partridge on Apr 14, 2015 8:06:26 GMT -5
. . . I find the criticism of Silk Purse here odd. I think maybe those of you who don't get it must have started listening to Linda later in her career. I am one of the Silk Purse detractors. The Stone Poneys never managed to enter my consciousness, but I became a fan of Linda with Hand Sown... Home Grown. On Silk Purse, I love Louise and Long Long Time but for the most part the song choices and the production leaves me cold. It's a fairly good album-- I enjoyed it when I was in high school and still play it occasionally-- but when considering Linda's catalog as a whole, I put it near the bottom with Living in the USA.
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Post by erik on Apr 14, 2015 8:44:34 GMT -5
Quote by jhar26:
I don't think that's the problem. The problem, in my opinion, is that far too many people start to believe in this ticky-tack "criticism" of Linda by people like Dave Marsh and Robert Christgau without even bothering to listen to Linda once, and then repeat their slams as if those slams were the Gospel truth.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 9:22:53 GMT -5
My Psychology 101 take is that many critics are frustrated musicians who did not have the talent and or drive to be successful. It is easy for them to imagine playing raw or basic music such as the Sex Pistols or Ramones. However, the artistry of someone like Linda makes clear the distance between a real professional and them... my theory, anyway...
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Post by erik on Apr 14, 2015 9:42:50 GMT -5
Quote by robertaxel:
Over time, I have come to believe that there's a lot of truth in that.
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Post by fabtastique on Apr 14, 2015 11:54:17 GMT -5
I was a latecomer to Linda, in the UK honestly she wasn't very well known EVER I don't think (until CLAR then she was off the radar again really)
First time I really became aware of her was when I was working in a record store (remember those) on a part time basis when I was 18 and people started to come in and ask for Somewhere Out There by Linda Ronstadt and James Ingram .... it had not been released in the UK at that time. Honestly I'd not heard of her, sheltered musical life!! I looked through the racks and they had GH Vol1 and For Sentimental Reasons on vinyl. Being a standards fan I played FSR first and was blown away. From there I bought everything - definitely have favourites, I like the early stuff sometimes, but for me its the mid/later career work that interests me. She obviously had more creative freedom, did a lot of personal stuff - you can hear the love and respect in her voice for the material - can honestly say I never listen to the Stone Poneys stuff, generally don't listen to anything before Don't Cry Now ..... Plus her voice matured, expanded and she found her place I think.
I do hate those critics that say "she's a cover's artist", like its a criticism or insinuate that she doesn't understand the lyrics. Linda is one of the most well-read, intelligent, knowledgeable people I've heard speak especially on music, music history, songs, songwriters etc ..... its kind of insulting and shows a journalistic laziness to say she doesn't understand what she's singing.
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Post by erik on Apr 14, 2015 14:37:08 GMT -5
Quote by fabtastique:
I would say that Robert's theory, that they're all frustrated wanted-to-be musicians who didn't have the talent or drive (or the unmitigated gall, as it were) to succeed, is the reason they exist at all. As I myself have said, it's also the kind of criticism that gets repeated by everybody else as if in some kind of echo chamber.
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Post by PoP80 on Apr 14, 2015 15:28:47 GMT -5
Linda came on the scene when most artists were writing and performing original material, so that became a requirement for respect in the music world. This is unfortunate because not everyone can interpret lyrics with such honesty and emotional connection. Would anyone call Sinatra or Ella Fitzgerald cover singers???
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Post by moe on Apr 14, 2015 17:08:27 GMT -5
My Psychology 101 take is that many critics are frustrated musicians who did not have the talent and or drive to be successful. It is easy for them to imagine playing raw or basic music such as the Sex Pistols or Ramones. However, the artistry of someone like Linda makes clear the distance between a real professional and them... my theory, anyway... I think your theory is perfectly valid, in fact i can see some validity with regard to my own opinions. It kind of explains my liking of earlier albums in that it viscerally brings back the zietgeist of my youth when rawness of experience was everything. (Be honest how many chances do you get to use zeitgeist in a sentence). Linda was good then later she was unearthly. How she transitioned from cute singer with a great but untrained voice to what she became without stumbling over the dual pitfalls of fame and inertia shows that she was a true musician and artist. Having said that, her early albums are fun, her later work is simply awe inspiring. Even now i at times smile, cry or just sit in slack jawed amazement at "cry like a rainstorm" or "winter light" I guess you can like a Mozart divertimento as well as a Beethoven or Wagner symphony or opera.
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Post by erik on Apr 14, 2015 17:45:48 GMT -5
Quote by PoP80:
This mindset is indeed unfortunate. And by the way, I would wager than fewer than half of the performers out there today actually write their own material; so what have these snobs masquerading as rock critics (Marsh; Christgau, etc.) actually proven in the end? Very little, if anything (IMHO). And is the quality of songs any better now than it was in the 60s and 70s? I think the answer is an unequivocal NO.
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Post by moe on Apr 14, 2015 18:01:26 GMT -5
Quote by PoP80: This mindset is indeed unfortunate. And by the way, I would wager than fewer than half of the performers out there today actually write their own material; so what have these snobs masquerading as rock critics (Marsh; Christgau, etc.) actually proven in the end? Very little, if anything (IMHO). And is the quality of songs any better now than it was in the 60s and 70s? I think the answer is an unequivocal NO. One answer to the writing question is Taylor Swift which kinda proves your point. IMOH her entire catalog isn't worth one "Lo Siento mi Vida" or "Try Me Again" quality over quantity!
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Post by erik on Apr 14, 2015 20:10:16 GMT -5
Quote by moe:
T-Swift's problem, in my opinion, is that she's a 25 year old still stuck at age 15 in terms of songwriting. And as for her voice, well, to use a Foghorn Leghorn phrase, she leaves me as cold as a nudist on an iceberg.
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Post by Richard W on Apr 14, 2015 23:49:38 GMT -5
Moe said: "Linda was good then later she was unearthly. How she transitioned from cute singer with a great but untrained voice to what she became without stumbling over the dual pitfalls of fame and inertia shows that she was a true musician and artist. Having said that, her early albums are fun, her later work is simply awe inspiring. Even now i at times smile, cry or just sit in slack jawed amazement at "cry like a rainstorm" or "winter light" I guess you can like a Mozart divertimento as well as a Beethoven or Wagner symphony or opera."
You got that right, Moe!
I remember a year or so ago I was at the train station waiting for the train to take me downtown. I'd just downloaded a live version of "I Keep It Hid" and I was so blown away by the sheer, gorgeous velocity of her voice when she went all gale-force on that final chorus that I missed the train, did not even notice that it had pulled into the station.
Crikey!
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Post by PoP80 on Apr 15, 2015 8:01:47 GMT -5
No pun intended, but Linda's voice does have the ability to transport you to another place. That's a rare gift in itself and a quality that can't be taught or manufactured. Clearly worth missing that train.
I don't want to pick on Taylor Swift who does have wide appeal to her generation, but if she wasn't so cute and sweet, she might be a train wreck.
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Post by erik on Apr 15, 2015 9:00:09 GMT -5
Quote by PoP80:
I think Linda has always had that ability to transport you to another time and place. People often assume it really got that way after all the training she put herself through with Pirates and La Boheme, but I feel like it was always there, even early on when she could do a honky-tonk rocker like "Break My Mind", or Patsy Cline's "I Fall To Pieces".
Regarding Linda vis-à-vis Taylor Swift: I recently talked with a couple of people who are roughly of T-Swift's age demographic, born in the middle to late 80s or in the early 90s; and, after having listened to some of Linda's early 1970s material (and even "Different Drum"), even though I knew that they weren't going to give up on Swift, they readily conceded that Linda was the better singer at Swift's current age of 25.
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Post by Richard W on Apr 15, 2015 16:17:28 GMT -5
She didn't transport me to another place, Pop, she left me where I was!
I was supposed to meet a friend at a movie and had to cancel.
That transportive quality: I first experienced it on "Colorado."
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Post by eddiejinnj on Apr 15, 2015 17:14:14 GMT -5
her first heeeeyyyyyy, coloraaado, is one reason I have always loved dcn. eddiejinnj ps:
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Post by PoP80 on Apr 15, 2015 17:39:46 GMT -5
I sure hope your friend is still speaking to you. Did you explain what really happened or did you make something up?? Too bad Linda didn't transport you to Denver, Colorado on Monday to see her appearance there! My first transportation/transformation was listening to the Heart Like a Wheel album..of course I was high at the time, too (lol).
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Post by moon on Apr 15, 2015 18:37:10 GMT -5
Seriously , I don't understand the snob attitude in the rock world about performers who don't write music. I remember reading criticism of LR for that very reason. But I don't recall every reading any criticism of Pavarotti for not writing his own operas that he sang and interpreted. I don't recall Frank Sinatra getting ripped apart for not writing the American Standards he sang. I don't remember Whitney Houston getting picked on for not writing music. Please why was that such an issue for Linda Ronstadt??
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Post by erik on Apr 15, 2015 18:44:43 GMT -5
Quote by moon:
Well, as quite a few here have noted, Linda came along at the height of the singer/songwriter movement when, at least in the minds of critics, performers/singers were "expected" to write their own material; and Linda really didn't (in fact, the critics attacked her for "re-making" so many rock, pop, R&B, and country songs from the 1950s and 1960s). It's all a bunch of garbage as far as I'm concerned, for reasons I've already stated. More than half of the performers today still don't write their own material; and a lot of what they do write can't possibly compare to what was happening in the 1960s and 1970s.
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Post by moon on Apr 15, 2015 18:50:49 GMT -5
Quote by moon: Well, as quite a few here have noted, Linda came along at the height of the singer/songwriter movement when, at least in the minds of critics, performers/singers were "expected" to write their own material; and Linda really didn't (in fact, the critics attacked her for "re-making" so many rock, pop, R&B, and country songs from the 1950s and 1960s). It's all a bunch of garbage as far as I'm concerned, for reasons I've already stated. More than half of the performers today still don't write their own material; and a lot of what they do write can't possibly compare to what was happening in the 1960s and 1970s. thanks for the quick response Erik. I probably didn't read the comments carefully enough. it is garbage!!!!!! really seems like LR really took a hit for that!
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Post by Richard W on Apr 16, 2015 7:58:53 GMT -5
Besides what Erik and Moon have said, I think the accusation was leveled at Linda in particular because so many in her circle at that time did write: Henley/Frey, Mitchell, Brown, Young, Souther, Zevon, etc. (Raitt didn't until much later), so she appeared to be "lacking."
As if she shouldn't bother singing unless she composed her own music; it's like saying a cellist shouldn't play the cello unless he composed his own music, or an actor shouldn't perform a role if she did not write the play.
But Linda was smart, surrounding (or, simply, surrounded) by talented writers, she was wise enough to record their songs, interpreting them to magnificent and significant effect. (She recorded songs by everyone on that list.)
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Post by erik on Apr 16, 2015 8:55:01 GMT -5
Quote by Richard W:
And what is most important to point out, in my opinion, is that all of those good folks have staunchly defended her as a supreme interpreter who always gave a life to a song, and whom they appreciate for her daring. It's unfortunate that the public frequently pays more attention to the critics than the creators.
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Post by PoP80 on Apr 16, 2015 11:04:18 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly about the comparison with singers/songwriters that she was surrounded by at that time. Not to mention that the majority were her friends and she helped launch some of their careers. The critics had a great deal of influence over the criteria for a true, creative artist and that weighed heavily on their shoulders. This trend has continued for better or worse, but much of what is written (and sung) today is not the caliber of the music from that era (IMHO).
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