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Post by erik on Dec 17, 2015 9:36:32 GMT -5
The results are in, and the 2016 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame inductees are: Chicago
Steve Miller Band
Deep Purple
Cheap Trick
N.W.A.Notably, Chicago, which had been scorned by this same body for so long, got the most fan votes (37%)--so if you scream bloody murder loud enough, somebody has to listen. After all, two years ago, it worked for us. www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/entertainment/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-inductees/ |
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 17, 2015 12:22:43 GMT -5
The results are in, and the 2016 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame inductees are: Chicago
Steve Miller Band
Deep Purple
Cheap Trick
N.W.A.Notably, Chicago, which had been scorned by this same body for so long, got the most fan votes (37%)--so if you scream bloody murder loud enough, somebody has to listen. After all, two years ago, it worked for us. www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/entertainment/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-inductees/Apparently, the rock hall has cut the number of people on the nominating committee. A spokesman for the hall said they'd previously had about 40 individuals who made up the nominating committee, and that was just too many people with the power to approve or disapprove of an artist or band being nominated. Maybe they were right about there being too many people on the committee. I've got some doubts but it was suggested the smaller number of committee members could result in some fan favorites getting in. Remains to be seen. The only act that raised eyebrows was apparently the N.W.A., which the criticism was they were not a rock act but a hip hop act. Guess even after some changes, some things never change. |
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Post by erik on Dec 17, 2015 12:50:47 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
Here's my three-word reason for N.W.A.'s induction: STRAIGHT OUTTA COMPTON.
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Post by jhar26 on Dec 17, 2015 14:05:50 GMT -5
Cool that Deep Purple got in. I'm indifferent about the others.
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Post by erik on Dec 17, 2015 15:09:01 GMT -5
Quote by jhar26:
In the case of Deep Purple, I know everybody's making hay about them being inducted because of "The Riff" ("Smoke On The Water"). But that alone would never have been enough to justify the induction; and fortunately, they had more great moments than any other hard rock outfit already in the Hall, save for Led Zeppelin. "Hush" was their first US hit, in the late summer of 1968; and their multi-disc album Concerto For Rock Group And Orchestra, released here in the U.S. in October 1969, remains one of the greatest progressive rock albums in history (IMHO).
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 17, 2015 16:15:16 GMT -5
Quote by jhar26: In the case of Deep Purple, I know everybody's making hay about them being inducted because of "The Riff" ("Smoke On The Water"). But that alone would never have been enough to justify the induction; and fortunately, they had more great moments than any other hard rock outfit already in the Hall, save for Led Zeppelin. "Hush" was their first US hit, in the late summer of 1968; and their multi-disc album Concerto For Rock Group And Orchestra, released here in the U.S. in October 1969, remains one of the greatest progressive rock albums in history (IMHO). I'm not much of a guitarist, but I figured out that riff practically without any trouble. And if I could figure it out, so could anyone else. But, I'm not about to quibble over Deep Purple getting in. They're deserving. I'm not much of a fan of Chicago but they're deserving too, as is Steve Miller and Cheap Trick. I don't really know the N.W.A.'s music but I don't begrudge anyone who's made it, for whatever reason. None of the acts campaigned to be inducted and while I may still have an argument with the hall, that argument doesn't extend to the artists. They're in, and congratulations to the newest inductees. Now, about our other fan favorites... |
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Post by erik on Dec 17, 2015 20:11:47 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
Well for starters, they really ought to start looking again for more womenfolk: Stevie Nicks (solo work); Pat Benatar; the Bangles; and the Go-Go's, for starters. This year, they only even considered Janet Jackson (no induction), and I would suspect the only reason they even considered her is because of her family's name. That's really not nearly enough.
Glen Campbell really should be considered for his body of work as well. People will, of course, argue that he's "way too country" or "too middle-of-the-road", but the man was part of L.A.'s famed Wrecking Crew, working with, among others, two of the titans of 20th century American popular music, Sinatra and Elvis; and he subbed quite well for Brian Wilson in the Beach Boys in late 1964 and early 1965. This and the fact that the man may not be on this earth much longer.
And with Linda in the HOF alongside the Eagles, there should now be room for Poco, the Flying Burrito Brothers (all of those guys, not just Gram Parsons all by his lonesome), and, yes, Emmylou.
This is just for starters...
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Post by vikingfan on Dec 17, 2015 21:03:52 GMT -5
I wish they'd find a way to get The Cars, The B-52s, Pat Benatar, Warren Zevon and The Go Gos in...
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Post by jhar26 on Dec 18, 2015 2:41:09 GMT -5
Quote by jhar26: In the case of Deep Purple, I know everybody's making hay about them being inducted because of "The Riff" ("Smoke On The Water"). But that alone would never have been enough to justify the induction; and fortunately, they had more great moments than any other hard rock outfit already in the Hall, save for Led Zeppelin. "Hush" was their first US hit, in the late summer of 1968; and their multi-disc album Concerto For Rock Group And Orchestra, released here in the U.S. in October 1969, remains one of the greatest progressive rock albums in history (IMHO). I'm not much of a guitarist, but I figured out that riff practically without any trouble. And if I could figure it out, so could anyone else. But, I'm not about to quibble over Deep Purple getting in. They're deserving. I'm not much of a fan of Chicago but they're deserving too, as is Steve Miller and Cheap Trick. I don't really know the N.W.A.'s music but I don't begrudge anyone who's made it, for whatever reason. None of the acts campaigned to be inducted and while I may still have an argument with the hall, that argument doesn't extend to the artists. They're in, and congratulations to the newest inductees. Now, about our other fan favorites... Well, guitar riffs don't have to be complicated. They need to be earworms. Ritchie Blackmore (DEP's guitarist) is an incredible player though. For me personally the importance of the HOF gets more and more diluted with each year that goes by. When I hear that such and such got into the HOF I'm not the least bit impressed because everyone can get into the HOF, so there's nothing that should impress me. Having said that, this is not an embarrassing group of inductees, but it's not an exciting one either. |
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Post by jhar26 on Dec 18, 2015 3:04:43 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker: Well for starters, they really ought to start looking again for more womenfolk: Stevie Nicks (solo work); Pat Benatar; the Bangles; and the Go-Go's, for starters. This year, they only even considered Janet Jackson (no induction), and I would suspect the only reason they even considered her is because of her family's name. That's really not nearly enough. Jackson's family name probably helped, but having said that, if Madonna is inducted at least considering JJ is not so strange. JJ is the better lip-syncher, the better dancer of the two and she's hotter, and those are the three things that really matter in this "genre." As for the others, they have as good a chance as anyone of getting in eventually because it all seems pretty random to me. Stevie Nicks should definitely get in. Her most recent album really impressed me. Much better than you would expect from someone at this stage of her career. As for country - why no Willie Nelson, Emmylou Harris, Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn? Not rock'n'roll enough is a bogus argument to me. Half, if not more, of the inductees are not rock'n'roll either. |
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Post by Anton! on Dec 18, 2015 11:48:26 GMT -5
jhar26 is right on. not an embarrassing, but not an exciting group.
Odd how the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame can have an expansive view of rock'n'roll- inducting Johnny Cash, NWA, Leonard Cohen- but can be so close-minded when it comes to some. Linda Ronstadt took forever to be inducted because she ventured outside of rock. And Linda's "friend" Robert Hilburn apparently not only didn't think she qualified, he expressed displeasure that legendary pop/rock star of the '50s and '60s Brenda Lee was inducted, all the while touting Emmylou Harris, who in my inestimable opinion, has had very little influence or success in the rock genre.
The R&RHoF just doesn't matter to me. Pure BS. If I'm ever in Cleveland, it's not on my to-do list.
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Post by erik on Dec 18, 2015 13:55:44 GMT -5
Quote by Anton!:
Yes, Robert Hilburn, who had been a champion of hers during her heyday, seemed for a very long time to have drunken out of Jann Wenner's Kool-Aid punchbowl. I quite frankly have had him on my s*** list for years because of his response to a letter I wrote him in 2003 about Linda's "non-induction", and he gave me that response to the effect that he didn't think Linda qualified. I guess he changed his mind after it was a fait accompli.
Quote by jhar26 re. Janet Jackson:
Well, to some maybe, but not to me--though I'll admit she's very good at having removable breast implants (relive her halftime "show" at Super Bowl 38, back in 2004 [LOL]).
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Post by Anton! on Dec 18, 2015 18:00:44 GMT -5
Before Emmylou Harris is considered for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think Linda Ronstadt should be inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. Emmylou, as a country insider, is already a member, even though Linda was a pioneer in country-rock before Emmylou, and in fact helped establish Emmylou in the industry more than anyone (even Gram Parsons). Someone needs to put the push through for Linda to be inducted into the CMHoF-- perhaps that someone could be Ms. Harris.
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Post by jhar26 on Dec 19, 2015 4:23:05 GMT -5
Before Emmylou Harris is considered for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think Linda Ronstadt should be inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. Emmylou, as a country insider, is already a member, even though Linda was a pioneer in country-rock before Emmylou, and in fact helped establish Emmylou in the industry more than anyone (even Gram Parsons). Someone needs to put the push through for Linda to be inducted into the CMHoF-- perhaps that someone could be Ms. Harris. In my opinion what is now "the rock'n'roll HOF" should instead be "the popular music HOF." There wouldn't be any nonsensical debate about what is and what isn't rock'n'roll enough. Each year they would only have to consider one thing - "what are the six (or whatever number they want to use) most important and/or best artists that still haven't been inducted?" - period. It would open up things for extremely important artists that now aren't even considered. And it would be a great quality control tool as well because now they put in five or six to meet their usual quota, even though some may be borderline or even not deserving at all. They would have no such problems if there are twice as many (or more) artists to choose from. |
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Post by Dianna on Dec 21, 2015 16:29:14 GMT -5
Well for starters, they really ought to start looking again for more womenfolk: Stevie Nicks (solo work); Pat Benatar; the Bangles; and the Go-Go's, for starters. This year, they only even considered Janet Jackson (no induction), and I would suspect the only reason they even considered her is because of her family's name. That's really not nearly enough. Glen Campbell really should be considered for his body of work as well. People will, of course, argue that he's "way too country" or "too middle-of-the-road", but the man was part of L.A.'s famed Wrecking Crew, working with, among others, two of the titans of 20th century American popular music, Sinatra and Elvis; and he subbed quite well for Brian Wilson in the Beach Boys in late 1964 and early 1965. This and the fact that the man may not be on this earth much longer. And with Linda in the HOF alongside the Eagles, there should now be room for Poco, the Flying Burrito Brothers (all of those guys, not just Gram Parsons all by his lonesome), and, yes, Emmylou. This is just for starters... Pat Benatar and Stevie Nicks are certainly deserving and both IMO should be in. As far as Janet Jackson goes, I feel she was deserving of the nomination, aside her family name, she is very talented and had a lot of hits and made a big contribution to pop/r&b/rock music, I feel that is clearly enough. Janet made as much impact on music and to some, even more than the Bangles or even The Go Go's. She is definitely worthy. I like Glen Campbell but when I think of his music I don't automatically think R&R hall of fame. He may have been associated with rock artists. if they're gonna nominate him they might as well put someone like Kenny Rogers in there too. Good songs and a few radio hits but I don't think Poco would qualify either. IMO they could have been an Eagles cover band. |
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 22, 2015 0:55:14 GMT -5
I like Glen Campbell but when I think of his music I don't automatically think R&R hall of fame. He may have been associated with rock artists. if they're gonna nominate him they might as well put someone like Kenny Rogers in there too. Good songs and a few radio hits but I don't think Poco would qualify either. IMO they could have been an Eagles cover band. Glen Campbell's not really rock and roll but because he played on too many rock, country and pop hits to name them all, he should be inducted as a sideman at the minimum. He was estimated as playing on some 2000 recordings that were hits. That's a large number and not counting songs that were released on albums. Chances are that everybody who was anybody in the 60s musically in California had a recording that Glen played on. And all that is because he was part of the fabled L.A. Wrecking Crew. And as for actual induction as an artist, in the 60s, he was considered a pop and country artist, although there wasn't that much difference between what passed for rock in the 60s (post-Beatles invasion) and pop. Keep in mind that by today's standards and even by the standards of the eras in which they debuted, acts like Joni Mitchell, James Taylor and the Mamas and the Papas are not rock and roll but folk acts. Same goes for all of the Motown or soul acts that have been inducted. If one is going to go by the strictest of definitions, 90% or more of the artists in the hall are not rock, even though they are or were considered rock at one time. I don't think Poco would qualify either but their members were in other bands or ahd connections to other bands that are in the hall. And for some at the hall, that probably qualifies them even though they were never that big or influential. Never being big or influential has never stopped the hall before. But, as for Poco being an Eagles cover band, nah, other way around. Poco came first. If they had took off the way the Eagles took off and the Eagles were the ones who had never made it, some would probably say the Eagles were a Poco cover band! |
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Post by Dianna on Dec 22, 2015 21:31:41 GMT -5
Glen Campbell's not really rock and roll but because he played on too many rock, country and pop hits to name them all, he should be inducted as a sideman at the minimum. He was estimated as playing on some 2000 recordings that were hits. That's a large number and not counting songs that were released on albums. Chances are that everybody who was anybody in the 60s musically in California had a recording that Glen played on. And all that is because he was part of the fabled L.A. Wrecking Crew. And as for actual induction as an artist, in the 60s, he was considered a pop and country artist, although there wasn't that much difference between what passed for rock in the 60s (post-Beatles invasion) and pop. Keep in mind that by today's standards and even by the standards of the eras in which they debuted, acts like Joni Mitchell, James Taylor and the Mamas and the Papas are not rock and roll but folk acts. Same goes for all of the Motown or soul acts that have been inducted. If one is going to go by the strictest of definitions, 90% or more of the artists in the hall are not rock, even though they are or were considered rock at one time. I don't think Poco would qualify either but their members were in other bands or ahd connections to other bands that are in the hall. And for some at the hall, that probably qualifies them even though they were never that big or influential. Never being big or influential has never stopped the hall before. But, as for Poco being an Eagles cover band, nah, other way around. Poco came first. If they had took off the way the Eagles took off and the Eagles were the ones who had never made it, some would probably say the Eagles were a Poco cover band! That's true about Glen, he did have some pop cross over in the 60's and 70's.. but even then it was more adult contemporary/middle of the road. I personally don't think he would get a nomination Many of the people in the Hall of Fame are not strictly rock acts.. but you have to look at the artist as a whole and see what kind of impact they made on pop culture during their time. What was considered cool/hip during the 60's? folk music was part of that movement.. Dylan, Joni Mitchell ect even tho the music was more mellow they were making a strong statement.. Fast forward to the 80's 90's the same can be said for NWA. Perhaps Poco came first but the fact remains The Eagles had all the big hits and are better known for that very distinctive country rock sound that came out of southern california during the early 70's. I'll give the credit to both Linda and The Eagles. |
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Post by erik on Dec 22, 2015 21:55:17 GMT -5
Quote by Dianna:
I think it is important to put into context the fact that Poco did have a number of fairly influential albums in the genre, like their 1969 debut album Pickin' Up The Pieces, that very cagily combined country-influenced themes and instrumentation (Rusty Young, like the Eagles' Bernie Leadon, was a multi-instrumentalist like nobody's business) with rock-ribbed arrangements. And since two of that band's bass players, Randy Meisner and Timothy Schmit, eventually went on to become Eagles themselves (at different times), you have to count this band as being influential. To be fair, of course, when Poco had their two big hits, "Crazy Love" and "Heart Of The Night" in 1979, Young was the only original member of the band still left from when it started.
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Post by sliderocker on Dec 23, 2015 21:12:25 GMT -5
That's true about Glen, he did have some pop cross over in the 60's and 70's.. but even then it was more adult contemporary/middle of the road. I personally don't think he would get a nomination.
I've got my doubts as well that he will ever get a nomination as an artist. As a session player or sideman, I'm not so sure. He's got the credentials and to ignore the body of work he played on would be criminal. But, the hall has been criminal in the past with the many artists who deserved a nod and induction and the artists who were admitted despite the fact their credentials were totally bogus or more questionable.
Many of the people in the Hall of Fame are not strictly rock acts.. but you have to look at the artist as a whole and see what kind of impact they made on pop culture during their time. What was considered cool/hip during the 60's? folk music was part of that movement.. Dylan, Joni Mitchell ect even tho the music was more mellow they were making a strong statement.. Fast forward to the 80's 90's the same can be said for NWA.
Seeing the artist's career as a whole is supposed to be the way it should be, but all too often, the reality was something else altogether. The nominating committee, however many members they had, were suspected many times of just nominating their favorites (not counting the artists who deserved to be in the hall) and overlooking other acts with better credentials than the nominating members' favorites. And there is the instance of when Jann Wenner personally deep sixed the Dave Clark Five one year, even though they received enough votes to make the cut, so that another act that also received above 50% (which had to make at the minimum to be inducted) but was below the cut off line, could be inducted instead. That kind of chicanery should not be allowed, not even by a founder. I don't remember the name of the act that got in at the expense of the DC5 but what Wenner did was considered scandalous. And I think it was said that Wenner did that after Atlantic Records founder Ahmet Ertegun was gone. Ertegun, it was said, kept Wenner in check but when he left or died, Wenner was on a tear to have things his way, including rejecting artists he didn't like.
Perhaps Poco came first but the fact remains The Eagles had all the big hits and are better known for that very distinctive country rock sound that came out of southern california during the early 70's. I'll give the credit to both Linda and The Eagles.
Same here.
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Post by erik on Dec 24, 2015 1:51:12 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker:
Grandmaster Flash--a rap artist. According to Wenner's "infinite wisdom", the hall needed a rap act in there. To call Wenner's actions crappy would be to give him the dignity he never earned (IMHO).
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