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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 11:09:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 11:51:47 GMT -5
Comparing my Evergreen CD & the mono LP, both "December Rain" and "Autumn Afternoon", which each have long harpsichord breaks, are not shortened.
Did the stereo "Different Drum" 45rpm single get cut & released before the whole "Evergreen" album in stereo?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 12:17:41 GMT -5
The bit about Linda flashing Peter Tork...lucky guy!
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 24, 2021 16:27:31 GMT -5
Comparing my Evergreen CD & the mono LP, both "December Rain" and "Autumn Afternoon", which each have long harpsichord breaks, are not shortened. Did the stereo "Different Drum" 45rpm single get cut & released before the whole "Evergreen" album in stereo? There was no stereo 45 of Different Drum in 1967. Capitol released all their singles in mono. The single was released in September 1967. Evergreen Vol. 2 had beenr eleased in June 1967. And the album was released in both mono and stereo editions. It's possible the long version of Different Drum was the version originally released by Capitol, but then they substituted the single version upon it making the Top 40. I can't for the life of me think why they would do that but it wouldn't surprise me at all. How many copies of the album with the long version were pressed, I can't say. I wouldn't think there were that many pressings of Evergreen Vol. 2; however, if the album was a slow seller, there might have been enough interest to keep the album in print. As for December Dream (not December Rain, you're mixing December Dream with Song ABout the Rain and Autumn Afternoon, neither of those songs were released as singles, so it's unlikely they would've been edited down on the run time. Autumn Afternoon had no potential as a hit single. December Dream? Maybe, but I've always had a fondness for the song. If the Sunshine Company had not already done Back On the Street Again and had a minor hit with it, the version by Linda and composer Steve Gillette (on backing vocals and guitar) might have been a suitable single. But, they would had to have extended the single, so it ran longer than 1:50. It was actually better than the Sunshine Company version - the Sunshine Company sounded so cheerful to be back on the street again and they also didn't have the verse Linda sang by herself in the middle. Linda actually sounded like she was heartbroken and mourning the lost relationship. The song could've been extended by putting in an instrumental section and repeating Linda's solo and the last verse. Or just Linda's solo and the last verse. And I think Linda's version would've done better than the version by the Sunshine Company. (And don't get me wrong; I like the Sunshine Company. Not a bad group.)
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Post by sliderocker on Jul 24, 2021 16:38:00 GMT -5
The bit about Linda flashing Peter Tork...lucky guy! I think that little factoid about Peter Tork and Linda came out after Peter's death. By the way, many of the people who were in Linda's circle of friends were also in the Monkees' various circle of friends. Both Jackson Browne and Lowell George were among some of the musicians who were friends with the Monkees. And I believe Lowell George played on one of the songs by the Monkees. I can't remember if he played on a Michael Nesmith tune or a tune by Peter or a Carole King song they recorded and produced. But, the Monkees supported and encouraged their fellow musicians and they seemed to have attracted a large number of musicians who were just starting, trying to get signed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 4:54:16 GMT -5
The bit about Linda flashing Peter Tork...lucky guy! I think that little factoid about Peter Tork and Linda came out after Peter's death. By the way, many of the people who were in Linda's circle of friends were also in the Monkees' various circle of friends. Both Jackson Browne and Lowell George were among some of the musicians who were friends with the Monkees. And I believe Lowell George played on one of the songs by the Monkees. I can't remember if he played on a Michael Nesmith tune or a tune by Peter or a Carole King song they recorded and produced. But, the Monkees supported and encouraged their fellow musicians and they seemed to have attracted a large number of musicians who were just starting, trying to get signed. That community is fascinating me. Its decently covered in "Laurel Canyon" documentary, maybe "Echoes in the Canyon" too. Linda in her early music years had lots of inspiration around her for sure!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 5:04:33 GMT -5
Comparing my Evergreen CD & the mono LP, both "December Rain" and "Autumn Afternoon", which each have long harpsichord breaks, are not shortened. Did the stereo "Different Drum" 45rpm single get cut & released before the whole "Evergreen" album in stereo? There was no stereo 45 of Different Drum in 1967. Capitol released all their singles in mono. The single was released in September 1967. Evergreen Vol. 2 had beenr eleased in June 1967. And the album was released in both mono and stereo editions. It's possible the long version of Different Drum was the version originally released by Capitol, but then they substituted the single version upon it making the Top 40. I can't for the life of me think why they would do that but it wouldn't surprise me at all. How many copies of the album with the long version were pressed, I can't say. I wouldn't think there were that many pressings of Evergreen Vol. 2; however, if the album was a slow seller, there might have been enough interest to keep the album in print. As for December Dream (not December Rain, you're mixing December Dream with Song ABout the Rain and Autumn Afternoon, neither of those songs were released as singles, so it's unlikely they would've been edited down on the run time. Autumn Afternoon had no potential as a hit single. December Dream? Maybe, but I've always had a fondness for the song. If the Sunshine Company had not already done Back On the Street Again and had a minor hit with it, the version by Linda and composer Steve Gillette (on backing vocals and guitar) might have been a suitable single. But, they would had to have extended the single, so it ran longer than 1:50. It was actually better than the Sunshine Company version - the Sunshine Company sounded so cheerful to be back on the street again and they also didn't have the verse Linda sang by herself in the middle. Linda actually sounded like she was heartbroken and mourning the lost relationship. The song could've been extended by putting in an instrumental section and repeating Linda's solo and the last verse. Or just Linda's solo and the last verse. And I think Linda's version would've done better than the version by the Sunshine Company. (And don't get me wrong; I like the Sunshine Company. Not a bad group.) Sorry for the mixup. Discs made in Scranton, both mono & stereo, had the long full DD, those made in LA the shorter one. I was lucky to get the right disc! "Carnival Bear" seems to fit with Evergreen's style for some of the other songs sung in that melancholy mood. I wish there was a recording session chronology & history somewhere for all the SP, Linda's own, and her collaborations tracks, such as Bear Family provides with their releases.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 12:24:21 GMT -5
I have bought a Scranton pressing of Evergreen, stereo version. Hoping it will have DD full length in stereo, though whether its real or split-mono stereo don't know.
The shortened versions of DD in stereo are Linda on one side to, band on the other.
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Post by erik on Aug 6, 2021 13:55:50 GMT -5
As an addendum:
The B side for "Different Drum", when Capitol (somewhat belatedly, in my opinion) released it as a single in October 1967, was a similar-sounding baroque folk-rock ballad called "I've Got To Know", written by Pamela Polland, an L.A.-based folk/pop singer/songwriter of that era who was responsible for introducing Linda to Jackson Browne in 1965. That song was also on the Evergreen album; and if the folks at Capitol had acted a bit faster, they could have also promoted that song to radio and given Linda her second sizeable hit in short order (IMHO):
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 18:24:41 GMT -5
Shame Tarantino didn't use DD or ILTK for "Once Upon A Time in Hollywood", either would have fitted well.
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Post by sliderocker on Aug 7, 2021 16:58:23 GMT -5
As an addendum: The B side for " Different Drum", when Capitol (somewhat belatedly, in my opinion) released it as a single in October 1967, was a similar-sounding baroque folk-rock ballad called " I've Got To Know", written by Pamela Polland, an L.A.-based folk/pop singer/songwriter of that era who was responsible for introducing Linda to Jackson Browne in 1965. That song was also on the Evergreen album; and if the folks at Capitol had acted a bit faster, they could have also promoted that song to radio and given Linda her second sizeable hit in short order (IMHO): Likewise, I thought I've Got to Know or I'd Like to Know had a potential to be a good hit single, but one problem with Capitol when it came to Linda was they always seemed to be in the weird habit of being caught off guard when it came to her singles. Different Drum and Long, Long Time both would've likely done better if the Capitol A&R people had been ahead of the public in recognizing the hits they had on their hands. Different Drum might well have been a top five, if not number one for Linda and the Stone Poneys had Capitol not waited on releasing it as a single. And I know Long, Long Time made the top ten in radio stations and stores across the US. Airplay gave Billboard an idea of what people were listening to and they took it the step further in extrapolating it to store sales. Most stores had their own Top 40 or Top 100 sales lists and would post them weekly. People could see how their favorite artists were doing. Long, Long Time should've been in the Top 15 or Top 10. It did better than what Billboard reported Given the longevity of Different Drum, it's quite clear its Billboard chart ranking was far understated. Its longevity suggested it should've been a number one. And I think what Capitol did or did not do played a role in how well both records did on the charts. And not in a good way.
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Post by erik on Aug 7, 2021 18:00:30 GMT -5
Quote by sliderocker re. "Different Drum" and "Long Long Time":
To my way of thinking, Capitol, like all the other record labels, had this habit of trying to put their artists into easily definable musical categories/boxes; and Linda, by her own admission, didn't make it easy for them the entire time she was there. Was she folk? Was she rock? Was she country? The answer to all three, as we know, is "Yes"; but in the late 1960's and early 1970's, that was an out-of-the-box way of thinking that they hadn't yet gotten a handle on when it came to Linda, or any other artist like her.
I agree that "Different Drum" might well have vaulted into the Top 10 nationally had Capitol acted a bit faster, though #1 would have been a tall order given that the Beatles were still holding a lot of sway. When it comes to "Long Long Time", I think that a placement in the Top 20 on the Hot 100, probably between #17 and #14, would have been possible, again had the label acted a bit sooner, and actually listened to Linda herself, since she was strongly pushing it against their objections that it was "too country" or that it was "a ballad; it's going to put everybody to sleep". Much of the impetus for "Long Long Time", incidentally, was driven by requests for the song on KRLA 1110 AM here in Los Angeles. In the end, however, one can't be too unhappy about its chart performance, as it gave Linda the first of her twenty-eight Grammy nominations over the following fifty years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 7:06:47 GMT -5
Record stores also like to put their stock in genre categories, on the racks (then in alphabetical order).
Looking at my original 1960s TSP LPs, they are classified by Capitol as "Teen", top right corner. So in a youth/folk category. Linda would be "Country" probably until she became well enough known to sell by name alone, a category by herself.
HLAW was Linda's first classy cover & I'm sure it helped sales (PID cover was too early to catch-on IMO not showing Linda's face, but maybe was a deliberate choice to go black, after HLAW being white).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 9:34:39 GMT -5
According to Discogs, only the mono versions of "The Stone Poneys" and "Evergreen volume 2" were pressed at Capitol's Scranton, Pennsylvania plant. That means the stereo versions were made elsewhere, and probably then there is no guarantee a stereo DD will have the full length version on it. www.discogs.com/label/313252?page=18&genre=Rock&limit=50Interestingly the singles for DD, and "She's A Very Lovely Woman" were pressed at Scranton.
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Post by rick on Aug 3, 2022 3:35:30 GMT -5
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Post by eddiejinnj on Aug 3, 2022 8:17:06 GMT -5
I have seen this gentleman before and he gives some nice compliments to us fans. eddiejinnj
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Post by rick on Aug 3, 2022 13:02:04 GMT -5
eddie, and all — I really enjoy how much he appreciates Linda. He did tag it as a “reaction” video, however …
1) he seems to have been blocked from showing the video of “Drum,” and
2) he seems to be of my era so he was alive and around when “Different Drum” was new, so he isn’t “reacting” to it. He is discussing the song and discusses Linda’s career.
Side note: He is quite enamored with Linda.
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Post by Partridge on Aug 3, 2022 15:40:48 GMT -5
bloviation
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Post by rick on Aug 4, 2022 3:14:32 GMT -5
Is there an over-the-counter remedy for "bloviation"? A salve or an ointment?
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Post by eddiejinnj on Aug 4, 2022 6:29:26 GMT -5
A remedy could be "listening" vs diarrhea of the mouth. lol eddiejinnj
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Post by RobGNYC on Aug 4, 2022 6:56:33 GMT -5
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Post by Partridge on Aug 4, 2022 12:12:53 GMT -5
I did not know that was the same music as the US release. I've never run across a copy of the UK version. It makes no sense that Capitol put a beautiful photo on the UK issue and created that butt-ugly cover for the US release, a minor step up from the Stoney End compilation.
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Post by PoP80 on Aug 4, 2022 13:52:06 GMT -5
The inane remark about the "smoke detector" didn't help either. I get that he's a fan of Linda, but the presentation leaves much to be desired.
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Post by sliderocker on Aug 7, 2022 5:29:35 GMT -5
I didn't like the way he said "Michael Nesmith, of all people" either. It was condescending, and I have to wonder, doesn't he know Linda and Michael were friends? And she hung out at the Screen Gems lot with all of the Monkees, the Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Sally Field, Jackson Browne and Lowell George, among others? A lot of people who were in Linda's world were in the Monkees' world as well. I also have to wonder if he has the ear of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he takes his cue of scorn from them?
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Post by rick on Oct 27, 2022 23:39:25 GMT -5
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Post by Dale on Nov 18, 2023 16:48:48 GMT -5
Some folks earlier mentioned some of the people in the Monkees circle of friends, Lowell George, Jackson Browne etc. What is not widely known is the list of musicians who played on Monkee albums is quite long. Neil Young, Stephen Stills, Leo Kottke are a few.
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Post by eddiejinnj on Nov 19, 2023 8:05:08 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, Dale and for the info; which I didn't know. Are you a fan of Linda's and for how long if I can ask? Myself, starting in late 1976 was the first album purchase. eddiejinnj
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Post by cymru56 on Nov 19, 2023 8:22:59 GMT -5
Rereading these posts. I was well aware of Pamela Pollands friendship with Jackson Browne. She moved to Hawaii many years ago and it was interesting to see her interviewed on news programmes in the UK commenting on the wildfires there recently. Also noted the difference between the UK and US sleeves for the DD album. I bought this album from a local record store in the 70's yet have the "US" sleeve This is the only cover I ve seen and have yet to encounter the "UK" version.
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Post by erik on Nov 19, 2023 11:39:03 GMT -5
Quote by cymru56 re. Pamela Polland:
I think Pamela was also the one who introduced Jackson to Linda in 1965-66. Also, Linda covered her song "I've Got To Know" on the second Stone Poneys album (it was the flip side of "Different Drum", if I'm not mistaken).
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Post by PoP80 on Nov 19, 2023 17:03:43 GMT -5
The Monkees seemed to be an underrated band. There was a great deal of talent there. I happened to catch a movie of theirs on TCM yesterday called “Head” from 1968. It was a box office flop but had some entertaining moments.
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